Global Warming is a hoax.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1305318807' post='2241000']

A concerned scentific community should be saying things like: CO[sub]2 [/sub] keeps the earth warmer, and since the Earth is currently warming we should limit our greenhouse gases to minimize the heat increase.

[/quote]

I agree with this. The hysteria seems media/politically motivated, though I will admit that some scientists are very concerned that the ability of other sources to deal with the carbon dioxide (the ocean's ability to absorb it from the atmosphere, for instance) will max out, and then the problem will get significantly worse. Not quite spiral-out-of-control-and-lead-to-the-end-of-life-as-we-know-it bad,but still....bad. Bad enough to be....seriously concerned.

I also get the impression that some of the people who are upset by the idea are just angry they'll have to pay more for gas. I mean...the self interest goes both ways on this issue. I think we should be willing to take some responsibility for our actions.

Besides, the whole carbon footprint thing makes it blatantly obvious that by 'we' we mean Americans and people in other parts of the world who live like Americans. Your average human being isn't generating all that much CO[sub]2[/sub]

[Laudate_Dominum]

I think we should enact a science-based meritocracy in which central planning responsibilities are given to people based on intelligence metrics (must be above 99.998th percentile) and scientific aptitude and training. Also, we should develop a lie-proof psychological test for determining how "green" a person is. The intelligent, uber green, science overlords will eventually optimize the world and utterly crush the stupidity of current politics.

I'm totally joking. I just came up with this concept specifically to troll on Socrates because I'm cruel and unusual.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]The absolutist claims that I encounter on this tend to be from deniers who don't know the troposphere from the mesosphere. The genuine scientific literature tend to speak in terms of probabilities when it comes to anthropogenic factors. Even the IPCC reports frame the matter in probabilistic terms. To my knowledge the latest synthesis reports indicate a very high probability for anthropogenic warming. I'm not inclined to take denials of this seriously without pretty compelling and scientifically proper evidence.

P.S. I apologize for any and all instances of as[s][/s]shattery during the course of this discussion.
[/quote]


Appology accepted captian neder






You look like this don't you.... I just get that impression.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Lil Red
because I hate quote tags that aren't fixed.

[Don John of Austria]

I promise I don't look like this

Edited May 14, 2011 by Don John of Austria

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1305337851' post='2241154']
I think we should enact a science-based meritocracy in which central planning responsibilities are given to people based on intelligence metrics (must be above 99.998th percentile) and scientific aptitude and training. Also, we should develop a lie-proof psychological test for determining how "green" a person is. The intelligent, uber green, science overlords will eventually optimize the world and utterly crush the stupidity of current politics.
[/quote]
i would so fail.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1305338302' post='2241168']
i would so fail.
[/quote]
No, the benevolent overlords would take care of everyone. We'd have replicators and transporters because science rules. Just kidding. Anything involving central planning by the big "S" State freaks me out... Supposedly Vulcan society was a meritocracy. Maybe that kind of thing could work for Vulcans. lol.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1305338042' post='2241161']
I promise I don't look like this
[/quote]
I don't see a pic or anything.

Climate scientists. (Pardon any vulgarity, this is the "clean" version anyway.)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7wdKg8rYL0[/media]

Edited May 14, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum

[AudreyGrace]

Something interesting:
I take a global environment course through SUNY Environmental Science and Forestry (a super hippie save the earth college nearby) and practically all year, we've discussed global climate change, population, emissions, sustainability, etc. However, my teacher contradicted himself big time the other day when we were looking at projections of what the earth's climate is probably going to be like in the next thirty years or so. The only way we as humans can stop any global warming is if TODAY, we all rode bicycles and eliminated the use of fossil fuels for all energy. And, even if we DID do that, global warming would still happen, and the ozone will still become depleted. Essentially, our impact as humans is very small in comparison to the earth's natural cycles. That being said, I don't think people should get their panties in a bunch over the ice caps melting and what not. I do, however, believe that every individual has a responsibility to God's earth to treat it well and make the most of our resources as possible (not wasting, not running through forests with an ax and going psycho on trees for no necessary reason). God created the earth, so we as Christians are to love it, meaning we must strive for its well being.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1305310248' post='2240930']
Are you really arguing that it is legitimate in scientific investigation, or any investigation to assume a novel causation without elimination of known previous causes for that phenomena? [/quote]

No, I was not arguing that at all.

I was explaining how the overall effect of 'cooling' and 'warming' is [i]always[/i] the result of a bunch of different factors all working together to produce a net effect. Because each one of these factors varies over time, the climate itself will vary. While everything will always contribute to the change, the 'cause' (ie, most significant factor) is likely to be something different each time the pendulum swings.

Or are you really suggesting that what caused the Ice Ages also caused the Medieval Warm Period?

So, my argument was that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will always contribute to warming, and right now, the evidence seems to suggest that this contribution is SIGNIFICANT. Not negligible.

Just as the albedo contribution of the glaciers was quite significant to the continued cooling during the Ice Ages.

[url=http://alaska.usgs.gov/geography/conference/presentations/Seward%20talk_tschudi.pdf]Current research on albedo and ice in Alaska[/url]


All of this stuff is current research, so tons of new data is being collected and analyzed all the time. As that happens, certainly ideas are refined and some are discarded. There's nowhere near a final answer on what is someone's current research project. But that doesn't mean we don't know [i]anything[/i], either. You can go get a graduate degree and focus on all this if you want: http://www.atmos.umd.edu/

Edited May 14, 2011 by MithLuin

[Don John of Austria]

disregard,,, phatmass hates me.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Don John of Austria

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1305338990' post='2241181']
Something interesting:
I take a global environment course through SUNY Environmental Science and Forestry (a super hippie save the earth college nearby) and practically all year, we've discussed global climate change, population, emissions, sustainability, etc. However, my teacher contradicted himself big time the other day when we were looking at projections of what the earth's climate is probably going to be like in the next thirty years or so. The only way we as humans can stop any global warming is if TODAY, we all rode bicycles and eliminated the use of fossil fuels for all energy. And, even if we DID do that, global warming would still happen, and the ozone will still become depleted. Essentially, our impact as humans is very small in comparison to the earth's natural cycles. That being said, I don't think people should get their panties in a bunch over the ice caps melting and what not. I do, however, believe that every individual has a responsibility to God's earth to treat it well and make the most of our resources as possible (not wasting, not running through forests with an ax and going psycho on trees for no necessary reason). God created the earth, so we as Christians are to love it, meaning we must strive for its well being.
[/quote]
Sweet. I wish I could take courses at that place. Sounds fun. P.S. You should get clarification on that apparent contradiction. What was the contradiction anyway? lol. Sorry, I'm not sure that I quite understood you here.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum

[Don John of Austria]

I might look something like this

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1305338894' post='2241180']
I don't see a pic or anything.

Climate scientists. (Pardon any vulgarity, this is the "clean" version anyway.)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7wdKg8rYL0[/media]
[/quote]


It should have been this

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1305340662' post='2241191']
I might look something like this
[/quote]
Yes!! This thread now officially rocks.

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1305340724' post='2241192']
It should have been this
[/quote]
Omgosh. I have nightmares about that thing.

[Nihil Obstat]

[img]http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/redneck2.gif[/img] <--- Don John
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nqc3_ihdR84/Ta3BgzI_CHI/AAAAAAAAACI/V6OojUpHTWg/s1600/haight-hippie.jpg[/img] <--- Sean
[img]http://www.linguadex.com/tolstoy/tolstoy_big.jpg[/img] <--- Nihil