photosynthesis Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 So, as Catholics we believe that there is a Heaven and there is a Hell and that these places are real. I believe that they are tangible, literal places however I think JP2 had said that Hell was a spiritual place.... What do we know about Heaven and Hell? Do you think that they're real, literal places, or are they intangible and spiritual? I've never read Dante's Inferno, but I've heard it said that there are different "circles" of Hell for different kinds of sinners. Are people in hell punished by degrees? Are serial killers punished more than people who only murdered one person? What about heaven? Are some people more rewarded than others? Do people in the Church Triumphant have more honor than others? Do some people get a big mansion in heaven, and some people only a little shack? Does God ever give people the short end of the stick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 well, its possible to describe hell primarily as a spiritual state, since doctrine does indicate that the pain of loss (poena damni) happens to be the essence of the sufferings of hell (the loss of God that is). However, definitive doctrine also states that even the damned are reunited with their bodies and that there is a pain of sense (poena sensus). As far as fire and brimstone goes, there is nothing heretical about understanding this to be imagery and not a strictly literal description of hell. It is perhaps a state that we cannot as yet imagine, but what we know as fire captures something of the reality of hell. There are however dogmatic formulations which describe hell as "unquenchable fire" or "eternal fire", but this still does not rule out the possibility of a more analogous understanding. The New Testament also describes the realm of the damned in terms of fire. I tend to understand these sorts of elemental descriptions of things to be at least somewhat metaphorical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 The Church does teach that there is a heaven and a hell. They both can be found in scripture, and I know from recent research hell can be demonstrated from reason alone so I would also assume heaven can. I'm not sure how I feel about the circles of hell or rewards in heaven. I few things come to mind... About hell... what can be worse than eternal damnation. It is the worst punishment possible. I don't think some people in hell are like 'man I'm glad I didn't get that guys punishment, I got it easy...' Along those same lines, if mortal sin gets you to hell, is there really a difference among mortal sins? Someone asked earlier are murder and pre-martial sex (assume both mortal sin) any worse than the other? I don't see how they could be if they both go to hell. On heaven, I somewhat feel the same way. If there are different rewards in heaven, does it really matter? You're in heaven, you're in eternal happiness. What can add to it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Theres a whole article on Hell over at newadvent, heres something I found about degrees of punishment... [quote]We must not consider the eternal punishment of hell as a series of separate of distinct terms of punishment, as if God were forever again and again pronouncing a new sentence and inflicting new penalties, and as if He could never satisfy His desire of vengeance. Hell is, especially in the eyes of God, one and indivisible in its entirety; it is but one sentence and one penalty. We may represent to ourselves a punishment of indescribable intensity as in a certain sense the equivalent of an eternal punishment; this may help us to see better how God permits the sinner to fall into hell -- how a man who sets at naught all Divine warnings, who fails to profit by all the patient forbearance God has shown him, and who in wanton disobedience is absolutely bent on rushing into eternal punishment, can be finally permitted by God's just indignation to fall into hell.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Well nevermind... maybe there is some difference...also from the newadvent.. [quote](1) The pains of hell differ in degree according to demerit. This holds true not only of the pain of sense, but also of the pain of loss. A more intense hatred of God, a more vivid consciousness of utter abandonment by Divine goodness, a more restless craving to satisfy the natural desire for beatitude with things external to God, a more acute sense of shame and confusion at the folly of having sought happiness in earthly enjoyment -- all this implies as its correlation a more complete and more painful separation from God. [/quote] Bottom line is that hell sounds like a pretty bad place and after reading that article I want to go to confession and live in a church! And I feel like I'm talking to myself here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) [quote name='rkwright' date='Jan 29 2006, 12:34 AM']Well nevermind... maybe there is some difference...also from the newadvent.. Bottom line is that hell sounds like a pretty bad place and after reading that article I want to go to confession and live in a church! And I feel like I'm talking to myself here.... [right][snapback]869128[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I was trying to find a saints quote but forget it( and I posted a new topic in open mic so go reply). I believe the more a soul knows God and has a good understanding of Him, the more alone and abandoned it feels in hell.....so yah basically what that article said. Edited January 29, 2006 by Rick777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 one of my very good friends (who passed away awhile ago) was a Jew who converted to Catholicism. Before he became Catholic, he always said that his idea of the afterlife was like sitting at the feet of Moses and listening to him preach. If, in one's earthly life a soul was unrigheous and unfaithful to God, it would be extremely painful to be in the presence of such holiness because the soul would be so conscious of how unrighteous and unfaithful he'd been. But if a soul was faithful and righteous, being in the presence of one of God's prophets would make them very happy. Later on, when he became Catholic, going to Mass gave him new insights. He was influenced by Scott Hahn's theology of the Mass as Heaven on Earth. He said that the more you loved the Mass, the happier you will be in Heaven.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I heard a russian orthodox priest talk about heaven and hell one time... he described hell as being in the precense of God, feeling God's love, but because you hated God so much in your life, His love would feel like burning as it radiated on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I dont believe that in heaven people have "houses" or "shacks". I tend to think of it more as everyone being up there worshiping the Blessed Virgin (worship dosent always mean latria) and adoring (adoration is a better word than "worship" to describe latria) the Blessed Trinity with all the Angels, Apostles, Martyrs etc. Why would someone want to be living in a house when you are in the paridise of God? I believe Hell is WORSE than described in The Inferno. I believe that it is so horrid noone can even imagine it. How come you didnt ask about purgatory tho? I believe purgatory is a state of punishment like hell, though you have the GREAT comfort of knowing that you will one be able to go to Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 well, we can talk about purgatory if y'all want... and limbo too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krostandt Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 [quote]St. Ephrem the Syrian explains this as follows: "Just as everyone enjoys the rays of the sensual sun according to the purity of his power of seeing, and just as when a lamp illuminates a large room, each ray is perceived as coming from that same source, similarly it will be in the future age: all the righteous will share inseparably of a single joy, but each in his own degree will be illumined by the single spiritual Sun, and to the degree of his worth he will draw in joy and rejoicing as if in a single atmosphere and place. No one will see the degrees that are higher or lower, lest looking on the surpassing grace of another and upon his own deprivation, he will thereby have some cause for sorrow and disturbance. This cannot be there, where there is neither sorrow nor sighing. But there everyone will rejoice inwardly according to the grace proper to him, while outwardly all will have a single contemplation and a single joy" (Sermon On the Heavenly Mansions). [/quote] That said, I believe that currently it is a spiritual, but actual place. We shall not expierience it physically though, until the ressureection of the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 [quote name='rkwright' date='Jan 29 2006, 03:41 PM']I heard a russian orthodox priest talk about heaven and hell one time... he described hell as being in the precense of God, feeling God's love, but because you hated God so much in your life, His love would feel like burning as it radiated on you. [right][snapback]869498[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i can see what the russian priest is saying...........since hell must lie somewhere inside of god since he is everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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