Paphnutius Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 [quote name='Semalsia' date='Feb 3 2006, 12:49 AM']It doesn't matter if the love is disordered, what matters is that whether it exists at all. And that's what I thought this thread was about. [/quote]It does matter if it is disordered because homosexual love is a perversion of what love was meant to be. And this thread was about it being legitimate, not its existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah_JC Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 All human love is flawed. Just because an attraction is disordered, doesn't mean that the a person with SSA can't truly want the best for another person with SSA. (Ultimately union with Christ) Look at all these organizations to support people in controlling their SSA. As for a relationship, I'd like to hope that there are people out there that are purely ignorant (as in, not willfully choosing a sinful lifestyle for the both of them), and do love their... uh... partners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmeyersmusic Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 [quote]It does matter if it is disordered because homosexual love is a perversion of what love was meant to be. [/quote] no, homosexual SEX is a perversion of what SEX was meant to be. it's been said a few different ways, but to reiterate, the Church definitely does not teach that two men, even if sexually attracted to each other, cannot love one another. it does teach, however, that they cannot consumate that love in sexual union, since by their very nature they lack the ability (as in, they're missing body parts). it also teaches that they may not enter into marriage so as not to confuse them into believing they may then consumate their love. it is physiologically impossible for two men or two women to embrace maritally. it is completely possible for them to love one another, and poor choices on expressing that love do no more to disqualify it than our sins disqualify our love for Christ. there also seems to be a confusion about mortal sin: being a sin of grave matter is only one criteria for mortal sin. the sinner must willingly perform the act AND have full knowledge of its gravity as well. I would say that a HUGE percentage of acts involving homosexual sex do not fit this criteria. For a sin to be mortal, you have to understand that doing it severs your relationship with God in a real way, and choose to do it anyway. I think that most people attracted to others of their own gender are not under that impression. This doesn't change the gravity of the matter, but it does effect the degree of seperation from God that results from it. This also applies to many people with addictions, misunderstandings about Church teaching and/or God's grace, or many other issues. If I were to go out and have homosexual sex with a man, it would be a mortal sin because I understand that I would be going directly against God on purpose (not to mention ruining my great marriage) but the same may not be true for a person who has been brought to believe by parents/society/pastors/friends/etc. that it doesn't achieve that seperation. this of course is not to say that a person can just choose not to believe what has been revealed to them and stay in the clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 so to take a whack at it. I think that the love between homosexual people is a reflection of the true love that God intended people to have in the beginning of Creation. It is a true love, but a lesser love than that of the love between a man and a woman. Love finds its end in unity. You want to be with someone you love. this is the case for anything else as well. The unity of love between a man and a woman is given flesh in a child. homosexual couples can never produce children in a way that promotes the unity that God intended in the beginning. They can never draw so close to each other that the two become one flesh in a child. The love they have is incomplete. That said, the current so called "gay culture" in the world and indeed the entire culture of the world seems to have its focus on the physical aspects of love. It is on the level of passions (just like every other animal). There is more to love. It transcends the passion level and moves on to the spiritual one. Love is a supernatural act and a gift of God to his creation. It is the source of our redemption as well (I think this is John 3:16 For God so loved the world ...) It is something that moves beyond the physical. True love entails more than a sexual act. Our culture that we live in promotes "love" as the act and that is the finality. It might be why people find relationships so lacking today. They lack the understanding of true love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted February 6, 2006 Author Share Posted February 6, 2006 so... if it is possible to truly love someone, but the sexual act is still wrong, can the love ever reach its fullness? I have been reading Pope Benedict XVI's new encyclical, and he talks about the purification of romantic love... about how it starts as a sentiment, but eventually it must go beyond sentiment into mutual self-sacrifice. Can (non-sexual) romantic love between homosexuals ever be pure, and is it pleasing to God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 [quote name='Semalsia' date='Jan 27 2006, 07:19 PM']Your question comes pretty close to saying that maybe homosexuals are incapable of love. Is that what you mean? There is no charitable way to say that. Imagine someone telling you that you don't really love your mother or own child. And what can you even answer to that? Can you prove that you really love your child (or mother)? [right][snapback]868160[/snapback][/right] [/quote] A homosexaul is incapable of truly loving another homosexual, like a man would love his wife, or a wife her husband. God forbids homosexual "love", it is unnatural and perverted. There is a big difference in the love of a mother and child and the "love" of two homosexuals you are failing to make. God is Happy of and approves of the love between mother and child, God is angered by the "love" between two homosexuals because it is unnatural and they disobey God's Law that he commands us to obey. It can be proven that "love" between homosexuals does not exist, God is Love and God forbids any homosexual behavior whatsoever. God does not love sin, homosexuality is a sin in all its forms, without God there is no true love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 [quote name='Sarah_JC' date='Feb 6 2006, 07:10 AM']All human love is flawed. Just because an attraction is disordered, doesn't mean that the a person with SSA can't truly want the best for another person with SSA. (Ultimately union with Christ) Look at all these organizations to support people in controlling their SSA. As for a relationship, I'd like to hope that there are people out there that are purely ignorant (as in, not willfully choosing a sinful lifestyle for the both of them), and do love their... uh... partners? [right][snapback]876970[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If they truly wanted the best for one another, they wouldn't be buggering one another! And ignorance does not make their behavior acceptable, or mean that they must be given "civil unions" by the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 [quote name='ryanmeyersmusic' date='Feb 6 2006, 08:26 AM']no, homosexual SEX is a perversion of what SEX was meant to be. [/quote]I would still assert that homosexual love is a perversion of love. Really quick (I will write more when I have time later), but homosexual love in the sense between two people of the same sex having a sexual attraction to another is objectively disordered. It cannot truly be called love for a real love between two people of the same sex would not include sexual attraction or desire. To be attracted to another sexually is to desire, as others have pointed out, to be one with that person but in the case of homosexual love that is a perversion of what that is meant to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote name='Peacemaker02' date='Jan 31 2006, 02:57 PM']I guess my point is: this is a part of the catholic faith i don't aggree with. i feel that the love expressed in a homosexual relationship should be legitimate, even though i do understand why it is taken as not being so. its not that i thing that social flow can change absolute divine truth, it can't. i just feel that this should be reevaluated. If someone can't have legitimite love in a relationship with a partner of the same sex whom they have committed to, any legitimate love they show to someone of the opposite sex would be a lie, and i guess they would have to remain celibat. and with that i guess i will fold (for the time being at least). [right][snapback]871244[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Then you are in rebellion aganist Almighty God and Holy Mother Church. The Truth can not be "changed" or "reevaluated". And a person that gives up the their homosexual sinful life can legitimatlly love someone one of the oppoisite sex, and that would be True Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 [quote]Is love ever present in homosexual relationships? is the love they have for one another legitimate? If it's not love, then what is it? And how do we communicate this to homosexuals and supporters of homosexuality in a clear but charitable way? [/quote] Love is never present in homosexual relationships. The "love" they have for eachother is not legitimate, since it does not exist. It is another four letter word that starts with an "L"... LUST! Tell them that they will burn in hell if they dont repent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Love can happen between any two people. Whether they can legitimately pursue a relationship is a different question. Same-sex attraction is a disorder and cannot legitimize any physical relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirklawd Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Feb 8 2006, 04:16 PM']Love can happen between any two people. Whether they can legitimately pursue a relationship is a different question. Same-sex attraction is a disorder and cannot legitimize any physical relationship. [right][snapback]880889[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Exactly, we are ALL able to love eachother as brothers and wish the best for us in Christ. For homosexuals the love they feel for eachother just can not go that one step further into romantic/sexual love. It does [i]not[/i] work. It's impossible. It's unfortunate and no one's fault, and what ends up happening is two people trying to more deeply show their love for one another but there is no biological way for that to occur. As much as they try the two loves are unable to fully join. the result is fruitless, sexual acts that unfortunately only produce a pleasing friction (along with confusion and frustration) and nothing more. it's not a coincidence that true union of romantic love is only possible within the act that creates children. its meant to be this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Jan 27 2006, 07:41 AM']What he said. [quote name='photosynthesis']The gay community tries to get people to think that homosexuals are all mostly looking to have lifelong, monogamous relationships... to move in with each other and adopt kids and whatnot. They try to make it look like heterosexuality But I've seen the inside of gay culture and that's not what it's really like. It seems like it's all about the sex, and relationships are just some kind of weird by-product... especially in gay male culture.[/quote] One thing to remember is that the gay community is quite diverse. While there are indeed pockets of the community in which people are more focused on sex than on developing relationships (a comment that could just as easily be directed to heterosexuals, by the way) there are also pockets of the community that ARE focused on committed long-term relationships. For example, we have a Metropolitan Community Church (a pro-gay denomination) here that's growing rapidly, and is populated largely by people who've been ostracized in other faith communities. They want loving relationships, they want children, they want to be vibrant participants in their community, and they're attracting lots of people. I sing with their music minister in my choir. So I'd caution against making blanket statements about what the gay culture is "really like" ... your experience, while still valid, may not have given you a complete picture of what's going on in the overall community. [right][snapback]867395[/snapback][/right] [/quote] :applause: ((sorry i know im walking into this one late)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirklawd Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 [quote name='Sirklawd' date='Feb 9 2006, 09:43 AM']Exactly, we are ALL able to love eachother as brothers and wish the best for us in Christ. For homosexuals the love they feel for eachother just can not go that one step further into romantic/sexual love. It does [i]not[/i] work. It's impossible. It's unfortunate and no one's fault, and what ends up happening is two people trying to more deeply show their love for one another but there is no biological way for that to occur. As much as they try the two loves are unable to fully join. the result is fruitless, sexual acts that unfortunately only produce a pleasing friction (along with confusion and frustration) and nothing more. it's not a coincidence that true union of romantic love is only possible within the act that creates children. its meant to be this way. [right][snapback]881650[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i just want to add to my statement and say that all of that works the same with with hetero couples who are not open to children (use birth control). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenseeker Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 as long as they dont try to drag me into their relationship and keep their emotional contact to the privicy of their homes i dont care what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now