can homosexuals love each other?

[Didacus]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='Jan 30 2006, 10:56 PM']the terms of "sex" "love" and "lust" is erroneously used synomously.
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That is one of the founding arguments of pro-homo gtroups. They persist in mixing these terms so they can point to us and say that we are against 'love' when in reality we speak against 'lust'.

We cannot repeat the differences between these often enough.

My 11 year old son has no real idea yet of what sex is. However, we have begun talking to him about intimacy (in child language of course, without any ressemblance of graphic details). We want him to know the difference in these terms clearly BEFORE hitting puberty.

[Desert Walker]

[i]can homosexuals love each other?, is their love for one another legitimate[/i]

I think the answer is no.

[Colleen]

[quote name='Pope Benedict XVI' date=' Deus Caritas Est']God's love for us is fundamental for our lives, and it raises important questions about who God is and who we are. In considering this, we immediately find ourselves hampered by a problem of language. [b]Today, the term “love” has become one of the most frequently used and misused of words, a word to which we attach quite different meanings.[/b][/quote]

[Peacemaker02]

We are asking if this love is legitimate? Ultimately the love we seem to mean is that of a sexual nature. We as Catholics are teaching that a sexual relationship MUST produce children (this is what I have surmised from this thread). So a homosexual relationship can not biologically produce children (this is clear), so therefore, according to this teaching and understanding, impossible. What about a sterile heterosexual married couple? It is biologically impossible for their sexual union to create a child. Their sexual, loving, relations would just be a form of pleasure such as that of the sexual union of a homosexual couple, engaged in a committed (because marriage is illegal on both state and Christian/catholic law) relationship. Is their love legitimate?

I have read the Bible verses that relate to homosexuality relationships, and they could be taken as different interpretations. I also have an understanding of what the Catholic church teaches and believes about homosexuality, but I have trouble accepting this. I think this is something that the church needs to re-examine especially with the banning of gay priests and changing of society outside and around the Catholic Faith.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Peacemaker02' date='Jan 31 2006, 01:57 PM']  We as Catholics are teaching that a sexual relationship MUST produce children (this is what I have surmised from this thread).  [/quote]That is actually incorrect. The marital union must be [i]open [/i] to the possibility of children, not that it [i]must produce[/i] children. An involuntarily steril couple are still open to children although they may lack the biological capabilites that [b]normally [/b]would exist. That is the key. In a heterosexual relationship the function is inherently ordered to children although some cases may not be able to produce children for one reason or another. In a homosexual relationship it is inherently disordered. This is alos why contraception is not allowed. Sexual union is inherently ordered towards children and the use of contraception is disordering the primary act and function from its end.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Peacemaker02' date='Jan 31 2006, 02:57 PM']I have read the Bible verses that relate to homosexuality relationships, and they could be taken as different interpretations.  I also have an understanding of what the Catholic church teaches and believes about homosexuality, but I have trouble accepting this.  I think this is something that the church needs to re-examine especially with the banning of gay priests and changing of society outside and around the Catholic Faith.
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However Sacred Scripture and Tradition are interpreted by the Church who has preserved it for 2000 years; we don't do private interpretation.

What exactly do you think the church teaches about homosexuality? What does the ebb and flow of societal opinion have on eternal truth and natural law?

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='Peacemaker02' date='Jan 31 2006, 01:57 PM']What about a sterile heterosexual married couple? It is biologically impossible for their sexual union to create a child.
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That's not true. What about miracles? Or have we stopped believing in those...? What about faith? If the biological potential resulting from created biological STRUCTURES/ARCHITECTURES is still present what's the problem? There's no problem for God. Such a couple can indeed have a baby if it is God's will.

Edited January 31, 2006 by Desert Walker

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='Colleen' date='Jan 31 2006, 11:10 AM']QUOTE(Pope Benedict XVI @ Deus Caritas Est)God's love for us is fundamental for our lives, and it raises important questions about who God is and who we are. In considering this, we immediately find ourselves hampered by a problem of language. Today, the term “love” has become one of the most frequently used and misused of words, a word to which we attach quite different meanings.
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Ok. Homsexuals CAN love eachother that's obvious. But they can't love eachother in the very SPECIFIC ways in which a married man and woman can. That's what I thought had been established so far.

Edited January 31, 2006 by Desert Walker

[Peacemaker02]

I guess my point is: this is a part of the catholic faith i don't aggree with. i feel that the love expressed in a homosexual relationship should be legitimate, even though i do understand why it is taken as not being so. its not that i thing that social flow can change absolute divine truth, it can't. i just feel that this should be reevaluated. If someone can't have legitimite love in a relationship with a partner of the same sex whom they have committed to, any legitimate love they show to someone of the opposite sex would be a lie, and i guess they would have to remain celibat.

and with that i guess i will fold (for the time being at least).

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Peacemaker02' date='Jan 31 2006, 02:57 PM'] i just feel that this should be reevaluated.  If someone can't have legitimite love in a relationship with a partner of the same sex [right][snapback]871244[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]I for one can say that I love many people of the same sex. I have very close relationships with friends that are guys, but I never would consider a sexual relationship. Why? Because that is a disordered love, objectively and inherently. We are not saying that two people of the same sex cannot love each other. We are saying that there are certain same sex relationships that are wrong and disordered. If you want an example of a close same sex love that was chaste and blessed read about David and Jonatahn (1 Sam 18 and 20). They had a deep friendship, but not a sexual attraction to one another.

[quote]i guess they would have to remain celibat.[/quote]Ultimately, yes. Those who struggle with same-sex attractions are to remain celibate.

[Desert Walker]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Jan 31 2006, 03:05 PM']I for one can say that I love many people of the same sex. I have very close relationships with friends that are guys, but I never would consider a sexual relationship. Why? Because that is a disordered love, objectively and inherently. We are not saying that two people of the same sex cannot love each other. We are saying that there are certain same sex relationships that are wrong and disordered. If you want an example of a close same sex love that was chaste and blessed read about David and Jonatahn (1 Sam 18 and 20). They had a deep friendship, but not a sexual attraction to one another.

Ultimately, yes. Those who struggle with same-sex attractions are to remain celibate.
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Amen brother! Oh SO concise.

[PadreSantiago]

who the hell are you to say whose love is real or not? Please get off your pedistal mr holier than thou. Let he without sin cast the first stone, don't judge lest ye be judged and all that. Do any of you people even read the bible?

Edited February 3, 2006 by PadreSantiago

[Resurrexi]

homosexual love cannot be valid or real because it is against the Laws of God, Nature, and the Church

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Feb 2 2006, 07:21 PM']who the hell are you to say whose love is real or not?  Please get off your pedistal mr holier than thou.  Let he without sin cast the first stone, don't judge lest ye be judged and all that.  Do any of you people even read the bible?
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Well I am sorry if I came off as "holier than thou." That was not my intent. I also want to make a distinction between judging a person and an act. A person can can judge an act seperate from a person. As matter of fact we are expected to. St. Paul tells us to avoid people that exhibit certain behavior. This is not casting a judgment on a person, but protecting ourselves from what is [b]judged to be bad or sinful behavior[/b]. So yes we do read the Bible thank you.

Now on to asking me about whether I can say a love is genuine or not. I thought that we distinguished that sexual love is inherently ordered towards children. That being the case, a sexual union that is not open to producing children is disordered, or not genuine, whichever your prefer. A homosexual love is not open to producing children because of its very nature and is therefore disordered. I have already addressed the issue brought up concerning couples that are infertile. So yes we can say that a certain type of "love" is disordered by its very nature by looking at what it entails.

[Semalsia]

It doesn't matter if the love is disordered, what matters is that whether it exists at all. And that's what I thought this thread was about. But as far as I know, there is no way you can measure how profound someone's love is. So to say that a chaste relationship between two women or two men can never be anything but a friendship is meaningless, because there's no way to back it up. And the use of words such as 'genuine' seems to be saying that the feelings are the same, but you just don't value them the same. Which is something I really don't understand.