Didacus Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Semalsia, I must admit two things: 1. You do have a point that it should not be a wonder that the 'gay culture' is all about sex since that is what they all have in common. 2. Modern culture is just as 'fascinated' with sex in general, let it be heterosexual sex or any other variations thereof. However, do not ignore the fact that as Catholics, we teach chastity for everyone, and do so equally; even in marriage chastity is in order. Also, I do not believe that what is meant is that homosexuals are incapable of love all together. What is asked is that cna homosexuals enter into a profound love with each other as is shared between a married man and woman? the question might not have been asked properly, but I believe the majority of readers in this thread understood the main statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 [quote name='Semalsia' date='Jan 27 2006, 07:19 PM']There is no charitable way to say that. Imagine someone telling you that you don't really love your mother or own child. And what can you even answer to that? Can you prove that you really love your child (or mother)? [right][snapback]868160[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You are missing the point. This certainly would not make it ok for one to have sex with his child or his mother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 [quote]Is love ever present in homosexual relationships? is the love they have for one another legitimate? [/quote] Love is a gift from God. It is impossible for the kind of love that a man has for a woman to ever be between people of the same sex. Some could have genuine brotherly love and be confused on their feelings. [quote]If it's not love, then what is it?[/quote] Lust. Attraction is developed. Just as some people like blonds with blue eyes... There is nothing biological that tells us what to find beauty in. Gender identification is very important in the early years of life. It is also good to clarify options for life when raising a child. We are programmed from things around us at such an early age. We see our children immitating what they see. As the Christ tells us that the eyes are the light of the soul, and if we fill them with darkness then that darkness will influence us. (St. Matt 6:22-23)Same sex attraction is a behavior disorder. It could be a symtom of other issues. I think the medical article "Homosexuality and Hope" explains it very well. See it here: [url="http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html"]http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html[/url] It is well worth the read in trying to understand same sex attraction. [b]St. Matt 6:22 [/b] "[color=red]The lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is sound, your whole body will be filled with light; [/color] [b]23 [/b][color=red]but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be in darkness. And if the light in you is darkness, how great will the darkness be.[/color] God Bless, ironmonk www.CatholicSwag.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akalyte Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jan 28 2006, 09:45 PM']Love is a gift from God. It is impossible for the kind of love that a man has for a woman to ever be between people of the same sex. Some could have genuine brotherly love and be confused on their feelings. Lust. Attraction is developed. Just as some people like blonds with blue eyes... There is nothing biological that tells us what to find beauty in. Gender identification is very important in the early years of life. It is also good to clarify options for life when raising a child. We are programmed from things around us at such an early age. We see our children immitating what they see. As the Christ tells us that the eyes are the light of the soul, and if we fill them with darkness then that darkness will influence us. (St. Matt 6:22-23)Same sex attraction is a behavior disorder. It could be a symtom of other issues. I think the medical article "Homosexuality and Hope" explains it very well. See it here: [url="http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html"]http://www.cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.html[/url] It is well worth the read in trying to understand same sex attraction. [b]St. Matt 6:22 [/b] "[color=red]The lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is sound, your whole body will be filled with light; [/color] [b]23 [/b][color=red]but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be in darkness. And if the light in you is darkness, how great will the darkness be.[/color] God Bless, ironmonk www.CatholicSwag.com [right][snapback]868928[/snapback][/right] [/quote] LEave it to Ironmonk to make so much sense..haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacemaker02 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Okay I'm probably going to get flamed right off this site, but it is a chance that i feel i must take. I've been reading this post after being absent from this site for some time now. I've been thinking about what is going on in the world as far as homosexuals go. Now i'm Catholic, been my whole life. And i respect everyone's ideas and thoughts on the disscussion. Now that that is said and many of you have rolled your eyes. As far as if the love is possible with homosexuals, i believe it is. I think that a woman can love a woman and a man can love a man. heterosexuals fall into the same crazy sexual catagories as homosexuals do with groups of 3 or 4 as one poster wrote. I so however think it is unfair to compare a Man loving his daughter and its not right to have sex with her (ultimatly incest) with a homosexual relationship. Some of the people i look up to most as far as professionals in their field, entertainers (unassosiated with orientation), and teachers and friends are homosexuals. I think everyone deserves love. I also feel that our God is a loving and forgiving God. I realise this might cause you to flame me but as i said above it is a chance i'm willing to take to add my opinion to the table. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 hopefully you won't find any flaming going on here... First of all, it can be tempting to simply say, "Everyone needs love, God is merciful and forgiving" without really having to explore the moral problem homosexuality poses. Yes, God is forgiving. But even saying that implies that there is something God must forgive people for. Homosexuality is a sin. It is disordered, it is unnatural, it is wrong. God forgives people for their sins when these 2 things happen: 1. You must confess your sins. If you are Catholic, this means going to confession. 2. You must be repentent. This isn't simply feeling "guilty" about what you did. Repentence involves true sorrow for the sins one has committed. This includes having the intent never to do it again by the grace of God. So, yes, God is a loving and forgiving God.... However, He has made it clear in the Bible, Church Teaching and natural law that homosexuality is wrong. He is the One who makes the commandments, and we can't just change the words around to suit our purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jan 28 2006, 10:57 PM']hopefully you won't find any flaming going on here... First of all, it can be tempting to simply say, "Everyone needs love, God is merciful and forgiving" without really having to explore the moral problem homosexuality poses. Yes, God is forgiving. But even saying that implies that there is something God must forgive people for. Homosexuality is a sin. It is disordered, it is unnatural, it is wrong. God forgives people for their sins when these 2 things happen: 1. You must confess your sins. If you are Catholic, this means going to confession. 2. You must be repentent. This isn't simply feeling "guilty" about what you did. Repentence involves true sorrow for the sins one has committed. This includes having the intent never to do it again by the grace of God. So, yes, God is a loving and forgiving God.... However, He has made it clear in the Bible, Church Teaching and natural law that homosexuality is wrong. He is the One who makes the commandments, and we can't just change the words around to suit our purposes. [right][snapback]869024[/snapback][/right] [/quote] True Dat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Being children of God we are all called to love one another and are all created capable of doing so in the way God intended us. In that sense, Homosexuals are just as capable of loving others (including a 'partner') as anyone else. Their feelings are not any less or not real just because they are homosexual. However once the love is transmitted into action in the form of lust of sex, regardless if your homosexual or heterosexual, the only proper expression (except lust) is between a married man and woman. This issue is not that they are homosexual; its that a sexually active homosexual person is committing the same sins that a sexually active non-married couple. We shouldn't look at the sin of homosexuality any differently than we do pre-martial sex or impurity. Its all abusing God's gift and proper intention of sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 well, homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. That means that there's nothing you can do to redeem them. If two men have sex, there's no way you can make it normal, natural or holy. However, if a man and a woman have sex before they get married, it could be made holy if the man and woman were married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Actually no. Having pre-marital relations with someone of the opposite sex is very different than engaging in homosexual relations....I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jan 29 2006, 01:32 AM']However, if a man and a woman have sex before they get married, it could be made holy if the man and woman were married. [right][snapback]869064[/snapback][/right] [/quote] so pre-martial sex is only a sin if you don't marry the person??? that is never the way I've heard it taught. Homosexual acts may be intrinsically disordered (as are impure acts) but Aquinas puts simple fornication as a mortal sin for a good 7-8 reasons. Mortal sin is mortal sin regardless of intrinsic values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 It's obvious that both are mortal sins but one is more graver than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) how can one mortal sin be graver than the other... both = eternal damnation? what is worse than hell? Edited January 29, 2006 by rkwright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Well, murder is a mortal sin. Do you think that murder and pre-marital sex are on the same level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) there is an issue over the gravity of the mortal sin, but if the punishment is eternal damnation, I'm not sure that the murderer is going to have it any worse in hell? I mean hell is hell, once you're there it doesn't really matter right? EDIT: I don't mean to hijack this at all... if I'm completely wrong here and the Church teaches otherwise show me where. I'm always willing to learn Edited January 29, 2006 by rkwright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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