The Jews

[Aloysius]

the point I was making is that there is no parallel covenant. ignorance can reduce or take away from their culpability in not accepting the new covenant, and right action by the natural law can earn them some extraordinary imperfect membership in the new covenant, but there is no old covenant still in existence.

[desertwoman]

What is it that you don't understand about the Jews? Is it the fact that God told them not to mix with other cultures?

God held the Jews in high regard... they were highly favored in his eyes. Our savior is a Jew, he came unto his own and they accepted him not.

To me we are called to love the people of Israel for we do serve the God of Abraham. They reject Jesus as the Messiah and they are still waiting on him. They just couldn't beleive that Jesus was the Messiah cause they wanted Jesus to do the things that they expected their Messiah to do, but when he came down and taught not according to their predescribed notions, they couldn't beleive that he was the Messiah.

The main thing to convert any Jewish person is to convince them in the Talmud, the Torah that Jesus is the Messiah and this is what many Messianic Jews are doing.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

The Talmud is a racist book made by man and not by God.

[Myles Domini]

EENS regardless of the sometimes disparaging remarks contained within certain Jewish texts e.g. the Babylonian Talmud it is not our place to judge them for it. By the measure we measure to others shall we not also be measured? Your comments right now strike me as being unduly hateful towards the Jews. Christianity isnt about hate. Surah 9:31 onwards makes some pretty harsh remarks about Christians and our clergy but that is no reason to hate Muslims.

Were you merely opposing Rabbinic Judaism on theological points by presenting the coherency of Catholicism against its attacks I wouldn't mind that at all. I have no love for any religion besides Catholicism and am more than willing, as I've expressed, to tell someone to their face that I believe that only the Church possesses the fullness of truth. However, your posts do not strike me as exhibiting much more than anti-Jewish predjudice. Your words seem to contain just as much distaste for Jews as they do Judaism and thats not good.

You said on another thread why support one false religion over another? Well, if you see them as equally fallacious why speak of either? Why start a thread about Judaism? What vested interest in Judaism do you have? Why are you looking for a fight? Because thats how it strikes me. The whole point of this thread appears to be to identify the Jews as the enemy and a focus for ill feeling and malice and I cannot see the need for it.

Edited January 26, 2006 by Myles

[Krostandt]

[quote]The Talmud is a racist book made by man and not by God. [/quote]
So are many Christian documents. Go to New Advent and type in Negro. Read of the Christian Prayers around invasions. Now, yes, we do not accept those as authoritive documents, but my point is you'll find prejudice everywhere, even in Christianity. Therefore, please let me remove the plank from my eye, before I remove the speck from others.
Also, the Talmud, is not something that I really find racist. Bascially, it implies that Judaism and JEws are holy and Goy are not. One's simply the Chosen people. There's nothing wrong with saying that. It's a logical manefestation of their beliefs. If we are to judge their religion right or wrong, let us not use trivial things about their comments of the gentiles, but rather what they have to say about God. God, Ha'Shem, is important. Everything else is secondary.



Besides . . . . we all know for a fact that Texians are the true Chosen People.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 26 2006, 07:29 AM']The Talmud is a racist book made by man and not by God.
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[/quote]
have you actually read the whole thing, or are you just saying what others have said to you?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Hello everyone,

The reason I focus on Judiasm is because of the Old covenant. there was no covenent with the Mohamedans. I have no ill will towards Jews, only the relegion of Judiasm. I have Distaste for the Talmud because it is inherntly Racist and Anti-Christian.

[quote]Erubin 21b: "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah"[/quote]

here we see that the Talmud is put above the Torah

[quote]Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus was executed because he practiced sorcery.

Gittin 57a. Jesus is boiling in "hot excrement."

Sanhedrin 43a. On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu [i.e., Jesus. Spelling His name as "Yeshu" means "May His Name Be Blotted Out"] was hanged.Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not an enticer (Mesith)?"

Sanhedrin 106a. Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters."

Footnote to Shabbath 104b. Jesus' mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.[/quote]


[quote]Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed, hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old."

Sanhedrin 57a. A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Sanhedrin 57a. When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty, and what a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.

Yebamoth 98a. Gentiles, "whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses," have children who are legally fatherless.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b. Gentiles can't be trusted with cows because they do immoral things with them, and they sexually prefer the cattle of Israelites to their own wives.

Shabbath 116a. Jews should destroy Christian books [ironically].

Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed (Tob shebe goyyim harog).

Yebamoth 63a. Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.

Baba Mezia 59b. God admits a rabbi won a debate against Him.[/quote]
I have nothing against the Jews. But to say that the covenant between God and the Jews still exists is wrong. And to say that all their relegion lacks is the messiah is also wrong. I just Hope and Pray for the conversion of all.


God Bless,

Sam

[Nathan]

We could use a Jewish apologist in this thread!

[catholicinsd]

Shalom Everybody!!

[Aloysius]

[url="http://talmud.faithweb.com/"]http://talmud.faithweb.com/[/url]

it appears the pedophile charges are twisted out of rules regarding dowries, the references to Jesus are often references to Balaam, and a lot of it is misinformation...

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

it seems that i have no idea which site to believe.

[Aloysius]

yeah I'm not sure either. I couldn't find an online english version.. and as much as I really wish I knew everything in the universe, alas I am no expert on the hebrew or aramaic languages

but a lot of the explanations offered at the "The Real Truth About The Talmud" site seem to make a lot of sense, and historically I don't believe the Jews have been known to actually practice these sorts of things or teach these sorts of things

I think I am thouroughly convinced the pedophilia and imorality charges are without merit. I am not exactly sure either way on the racist charges (it would certainly be understandable for a race suffering so much persecution from other races to lash out at them) or the anti-Jesus charges (The Council of Jamnia forming rabbinical judaism has always seemed to me more of an anti-Christian council than a pro-Judaism one, so it wouldn't surprise me)

But then again, who knows, if the word is actually Balaam, then that refers to a demon... i think the claim on the other side is that it's supposed to be a "code-word", which doesn't sound too credible without hard-core evidence...

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 26 2006, 05:30 PM']Hello everyone,

The reason I focus on Judiasm is because of the Old covenant. there was no covenent with the Mohamedans. I have no ill will towards Jews, only the relegion of Judiasm. I have Distaste for the Talmud because it is inherntly Racist and Anti-Christian.
here we see that the Talmud is put above the Torah
I have nothing against the Jews. But to say that the covenant between  God and the Jews still exists is wrong. And to say that all their relegion lacks is the messiah is also wrong. I just Hope and Pray for the conversion of all.
God Bless,

Sam
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[/quote]
are these quotes that you posted earlier in the thread from your own personal reading of the Talmud, or stuff you found on a website somewhere?

[Mercy me]

The answer to your question as to how we understand the Jews can be found in the following excerpt:

The people of Israel have been liberated many times from the hands of their enemies and, in times of anti-Semitism, in the dramatic moments of the Shoah, the hand of the Almighty guided and sustained them. The favor of the God of the Covenant has always accompanied them, giving them the strength to overcome trials. Your Jewish community, present in the city of Rome for more than 2,000 years, can also bear witness to this divine loving attention.

The Catholic Church is close to you and is your friend. Yes, we love you and cannot but love you, "through the Fathers": Because of them you are very dear to us and favorite brothers (cf. Romans 11:28b). Following the Second Vatican Council the reciprocal esteem and trust between us has increased. Ever more fraternal and cordial contacts have developed, becoming even more intense during the pontificate of my venerated predecessor, John Paul II.


The link for the complete text is here: [url="http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=2918"]B16's address 17 Jan. 2006[/url]

[son_of_angels]

Nonetheless, I remember hearing about a priest who was ousted for "denying the salvific nature of the Old Covenant." That seems to me a whole lot like Pelagianism....