U.S., Israel to attack Iran

[Nathan]

What about Orthodox Jews?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

What about them?

[Nathan]

Well, all of this is your opinion. I don't recall the Church ever saying that about today's Jews.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain in 694 CE defined Jews as the serfs of the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen, Jerome, and other church fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual slavery because of their collective responsibility for the death of Jesus. 3[/quote]


[quote]"Judaism, since Christ, is a corruption; indeed, Judas is the image of the Jewish people: their understanding of Scripture is carnal; they bear the guilt for the death of the Savior, for through their fathers they have killed Christ." 1[/quote]
-Saint Augustine

Edited January 25, 2006 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[avemaria40]

Lord, please place the Dove of Peace on this world. Amen

[Lounge Daddy]

wow... i didn't expect this kinda reaction on this thread

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

Israel needs to stop controlling American Forigen policy.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 25 2006, 06:11 PM']Why?
why would you chose one False relegion above another?
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[quote name='avemaria40' date='Jan 25 2006, 06:49 PM']Lord, please place the Dove of Peace on this world.  Amen
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EENS please! We are talking about our brothers in Christ. Mary is a Jew and so, might I remind you, is her Son. They might not believe that their Messiah has come but Jesus is their Messiah.

Amen, Ave Maria40 I join my prayer with yours.

[Mercy me]

Lounge Daddy, I am right there with you. I pray that someone In Iran or else where stops this. I continue to pray for those in authority. However I know that the stakes have never been greater. Iran is the world largest exporter of terrorism and they have now "elected" a terrorist to lead them. If they get nukes there is no doubt they will see to it that they are used, if not by them by one of the terrorist organizations that they back.

Pray everyone for the leaders and citizens of Iran as well as the rest of the world.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Mercy me' date='Jan 25 2006, 07:28 PM']EENS please!  We are talking about our brothers in Christ.  Mary is a Jew and so, might I remind you, is her Son.  They might not believe that their Messiah has come but Jesus is their Messiah. 

Amen, Ave Maria40 I join my prayer with yours.
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Please what?

I have nothing agianst jews, nor against the race of Jews. I have something against the Evil relegion of Judiasm. If you disagree you deny Church teaching. Stop Bieng a politcally correct Liberal.

[Mercy me]

Excuse me but I have been reading a great deal lately about the Pope's concern about the rising anti-semitism. Furthermore JP2 was quite clear in his opinions. We are coming up on the 20th anniversary of his visit to a synagogue. I am sticking with JP2 the Great and B16.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 25 2006, 05:50 PM']Please what?

I have nothing agianst jews, nor against the race of Jews. I have something against the Evil relegion of Judiasm. If you disagree you deny Church teaching. Stop Bieng a politcally correct Liberal.
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What if it was Messianic Judaism?

They were God's chosen people, so in theory they would not be terribly racist. The main problem with the rest of Judaism is that it lacks the essential element of salvation, aka Jesus.

One of the most evident reasons why the Israeli-Palistinian conflict wasn't settled earlier was in my oppinion some poor judgment on how to treat the Palistinians. Because of the failure to seek God as they ought, the cultural and/or ethnic only Jews acting in the name of judaism are both deceptive and sometimes harmful to Jewish interests.

Israel won't stop influencing US politics soon because of things like enough Jews to have brought up Israeli issues and a general feeling bad about the holicaust and Israel is our only sure ally in the region.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]bullet 3rd century CE:
bullet Origen (185 - 254 CE): "The blood of Jesus falls not only on the Jews of that time, but on all generations of Jews up to the end of the world."
bullet St. Cyprian of Carthage (circa 200 - 258): "This name rebukes and condemns the Jews who not only spurned Christ faithlessly, but also cruelly executed Him Who was announced to them by the prophets, and sent first to their nation. No longer may they call God their Father, because the Lord confounds and refutes them, saying: 'your father is the devil' [John 8:44]. O sinful nation, O people weighed down with guilt, breed of evil-doers, lawless children, you have turned your backs on the Lord and have provoked the Holy One of Israel."
bullet 4th century CE:
bullet St Athanasius (circa 296 - 373): Jews "...have no abiding place, but they wander everywhere .... But in every place they transgress the law, and as the judgments of God require; they keep days of grief instead of gladness. Now the cause of this to them was the slaying of the Lord, and that they did not reverence the Only Begotten .... Therefore the Lord cursed them under the figure of the fig tree."
bullet St. Hilary of Poitiers (315 - 367) referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever.
bullet John of Antioch (347 - 407) (a.k.a. John Chrysostom): He delivered a group of four homilies titled "Against the Jews". Homily 4 said, in part: "The difference between the Jews and us in not a small one, is it? Is the dispute between us over ordinary, everyday matters, so that you think the two religions are really one and the same? Why are you mixing what cannot be mixed? They crucified the Christ whom you adore as God. Do you see how great the difference is? How is it, then, that you keep running to those who slew Christ when you say that you worship him whom they crucified?" 2
bullet 5th century CE:
bullet St. Jerome (circa 345 - 420): "Judas betrayed Me [Jesus], the Jews persecuted and crucified Me....In particular, this is the story of Judas; in general it is that of the Jews....Judas is cursed, that in Judas the Jews may be accursed."
bullet St. Augustine (354 - 430) wrote: "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."

On another occasion, he wrote: "Judaism, since Christ, is a corruption; indeed, Judas is the image of the Jewish people: their understanding of Scripture is carnal; they bear the guilt for the death of the Savior, for through their fathers they have killed Christ." 1
bullet 7th century:
bullet The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain in 694 CE defined Jews as the serfs of the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen, Jerome, and other church fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual slavery because of their collective responsibility for the death of Jesus. 3
bullet 11th to 13th centuries:
bullet The First Crusade was launched in 1096 CE. Although the prime goal of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from Muslim control, Jews were a secondary target of opportunity. As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large numbers of Jews were challenged with the order: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade. This behavior continued for eight additional crusades until the 9th Crusade in 1272. Hundreds of thousands of defenseless Jews died in the attacks.
bullet 13th century:
bullet Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris in 1200 CE that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire, they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..."

In an epistle to the Count of Nevers, he wrote: "....the Jews, against whom the blood of Christ calls out, although they ought not to be killed, nevertheless, as wanderers they must remain upon the earth until their faces are filled with shame and they seek the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

In an epistle to the Hierarchy of France, he wrote: "Crucifiers of Christ ought to be held in continual subjection."
bullet 15th century:
bullet Blessed Juliana of Norwich (1342 - 1423), "I knew in my faith that the Jews were accursed and condemned without end, except those who were converted [to Christianity]."
bullet Pope Innocent IV (1432 - 1492): "...strictly forbidding that Jews henceforth have Christian nurses or servants, that the sons of a free woman may not serve the sons of a bondswoman, but as slaves condemned by the Lord, whose death they wickedly plotted, they at least outwardly recognize themselves as slaves of those whom the death of Christ made free and themselves slaves."
bullet 18th century:
bullet St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori (1696 - 1787): "Poor Jews! You invoked a dreadful curse upon your own heads in saying: 'His blood be on us and our children'; and that curse, miserable race, you carry upon you to this day, and to the end of time you shall endure the chastisement of that innocent blood." Liguori was referring to Matthew 27:21-25 which describes an alleged interchange between Pilate, the Roman Procurator of Palestine and Phoenicia, and a Jewish mob. These verses are probably responsible for more loss of Jewish life than any other passage in the Bible:

Matthew 27:21-25: "The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas. Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified. When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children." King James Version.
[/quote]

Both of you need to read the Talmud.

[philothea]

Just a note... the majority of Jewish citizens of Israel are atheists. They're only Jewish racially.

[Mercy me]

As a note, on Ash Wednesday of the the Great Jubilee, JP the Great announced that the church herself would repent for the sins she had committed in her past and specifically mentioned her sins as relating to your above post. He then formally did repent on the very next Sunday. I remember because I was there. The dates were 8 March 2000 and 12 March. Still I am sticking with JP2