dUSt Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 :sadder: Your posts were removed due to violations of TOS 17. You may not promote Romanism on this site, nor link to a Romanist site. Future violations will result in the suspension of your account. ------------------------ Soli Deo Gloria, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 (edited) whose account is that? cowards! Edited December 15, 2003 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 :sadder: Your posts were removed due to violations of TOS 17. You may not promote Romanism on this site, nor link to a Romanist site. Future violations will result in the suspension of your account. ------------------------ Soli Deo Gloria, Tony :rolling: what the...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 I posted a link to phatmass and invited their members to come talk to us over here. That's the private message I received from their moderator. It reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses that came to my door and refused to read a piece of paper I gave them--yet, they leave entire books with me. It weird. In that very same thread, they were talking about how Catholics are "brain washed" by our Church--yet, I don't ever recall our Church telling us that we are prohibited from reading non-Catholic stuff. Oh well, at least Peppermint Patty saw the link before it was removed! I hope you learn a lot about Catholicism while you're here Patty--and if you ever feel unwelcome or feel like you're being attacked--let me know, and I'll take care of it. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesiringMore Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 I do think that is a sad site if you can't defend what they say...i don't agree with that...that is one thing that i've found, for the most part at phatmass, is the willingness to listen and allow questions and then to answer as best you know how...to not be Catholic but still be welcome to ask questions is one reason that i am drawn to Phatmass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppermint Patty Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Welcome to phatmass. Catholics don't consider themselves"saved" like protestants do. Baptism justifies us and gives us entrance into the kingdom. We are saved at death if we are in a state of grace. WE don't consider salvation certain before then, because humans have an inclination to sin, and sin can keep you out of heaven. Catholics don't believe in salvation thru works, however we believe if you have faiths then you will be doing works. James says faith without works is dead , and we believe that. We believe that people are saved thru Jesus Christ who is found sacramentally in the Catholic Church. All people baptised are linked together in his kingdom. To be saved you must somehow be linked to Jesus Christ in His Church. I am not sure if I'm using the quote option right, so sorry if this gets messed up. I must somehow be linked to Jesus Christ in His Church, which according to Catholics is, of course, the Catholic Church, you said. But the Bible says that all who believe in Him shall be saved, not all who belong to a certain organization. This is something that really confuses me. Also, what is the state of grace you refer to when it comes to salvation? Verses like Hebrews 6:11-12, and 10:22 say that we can be assured of our salvation. Is this the appropriate place for discussing these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozencell Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 I have taken on the momentary task of debating some issues with the Protestants on the Christianity.com site. If anyone cares to read them my name on there is CritikalCrux. I hope that I am representing the Catholic church in a wholesome and Godly way. Incidentily, if you are interested you should probably read them quickly as dUSt has so correctly displayed already, they will be most assuredly taken down in a short time. My only prayer is that maybe someone won't be as close-minded. That's the thing that has struck me though is that here everyone is accepted with condemnation and censure. I just there were more like Peppermint Patty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppermint Patty Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I knew that link was going to be deleted, I'm surprised it took Tony so long! LOL They have those threads on the site supposedly so that they can warn others of false teachings. But I don't buy it, they're on a mission. Some of those people claim to be experts in Islam, Mormonism, Catholicism, Evangelical Christianity AND Jehovah's Witness. Hmm, they must be old! :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesiringMore Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I think this is the perfect place to ask such questions Peppermint Patty:)..... i have a question concerning what Peppermint Patty quoted from cmotherofpirl....so, what about someone who was baptized Catholic but is now in a church other than the Catholic Church... what about free will?? being baptized as a baby, your free will plays nothing upon infant baptism, it is based upon your parents....but i think denying or following Christ is free will...shouldn't you make the choice? why do you have to be baptized to be saved? why isn't Believing Jesus is your personal Lord and Savior, and having a relationship with Him not enough to make it to heaven???---Most, not all, but most Protestants believe that is all that is required to get to heaven... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 wow peppermint patty. make yourself at home here. enjoy your stay. you sound like one cool cat! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I am not sure if I'm using the quote option right, so sorry if this gets messed up. I must somehow be linked to Jesus Christ in His Church, which according to Catholics is, of course, the Catholic Church, you said. But the Bible says that all who believe in Him shall be saved, not all who belong to a certain organization. This is something that really confuses me. Also, what is the state of grace you refer to when it comes to salvation? Verses like Hebrews 6:11-12, and 10:22 say that we can be assured of our salvation. Is this the appropriate place for discussing these things? You did the quote perfectly! Jesus only founded one Church in 33 AD, Matt. 16:18 - Jesus says, "I will build my 'Church' (not churches)." There is only one Church built upon one Rock with one teaching authority, not many different denominations, built upon various pastoral opinions and suggestions. John 10:16 - Jesus says there must only be one flock and one shepherd. John 17:21 - Jesus states that the visible unity of the Church would be a sign that He was sent by God. Eph. 4:3-5 - we are of one body, one Spirit, one faith and one baptism. John 3:3,5 - unless we are "born again" of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Greek word for the phrase "born again" is "anothen" which literally means begotten from above. See, for example, John 3:31 where "anothen" is so used. Baptism deals with the matter of salvation, not just symbolism. Rom. 5:2 - we rejoice in the "hope" (not the certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope? Heb. 3:6 - we are Christ's house if we hold fast our confidence and pride in our "hope" (not our certainty). Heb. 6:11 - we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of "hope" (not certainty) until the end. Heb. 6:18 - we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the "hope" (not the certainty) that is set before us. Heb. 6:19 - we have a "hope" that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone before us. Heb. 7:19 - on the other hand, a better "hope" (not certainty) is introduced, through which we draw near to God. Heb. 10:23 - let us hold fast the confession of our "hope" without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. Heb. 11:1 - now faith is the assurance of things "hoped" for (not guaranteed), the conviction of things not seen (heaven). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Actually, I believe that the Catholic church does not officially say that "one is not going to heaven without the Sacraments." The Catholic Church no longer says that salvation can be attained only through the Sacraments. It states that the Sacraments can bring you much closer to salvation than if you were to go without the Sacraments. However, the latter is not always true for every baptized Catholic. St. Augustine says this: "Some have received the invisible sanctification without visible sacraments, and to their profit; but though it is possible to have the visible sanctification, consisting in a visible sacrament, without the invisible sanctification, it will be to no profit." He says that it is inDouche possible for non-Catholics to attain salvation. However, he states that if you do receive a Sacrament, you don't have a "Straight to Heaven" ticket, if you will. But that's besides the point. We're focusing on salvation outside the Sacraments. Now, what of people who live in areas that have not yet been reached by Catholic missionaries? What of people who have no connections with the Catholic church? What about those people who haven't even heard of Jesus the Christ at all? I think the Catholic Church is sympathetic to their cause, and they realize that it is not their place to judge. It is only God's place to judge. God bless. Is this in line with Church teachings? -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Where is that quote from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geetarplayer Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 You mean the quote of the whole post? I posted it in the Roman Catholicism thread that this topic is about. The quote from St. Augustine found here: New Advent -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsFrozen Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Wow, Cmotherofpirl! That response was great! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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