for fear of offending...

[Era Might]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Jan 19 2006, 08:19 PM']Aren't alot of immigrants Christian anyway?  I mean, we get a huge influx of Hispanic/Latino immigrants, most of whom are Catholic, and the minority of them are Protestant.  So there  you don't really have a problem
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This is what spurred a lot of the historical American hatred for immigrants. So many of the Irish/Italian/German/etc immigrants were Catholic. American Protestants would spew propaganda about the Vatican taking over the United States.

Let's not kid ourselves. America is historically not just a Christian nation. It is a thoroughly Protestant nation.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Era Might

[musturde]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 19 2006, 07:08 PM']Well there are the Asians. . . . But I think the only people really getting offended are white liberals with a beef against Christ.
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yep

[sraf]

I won't forward this because I don't agree with it. I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM! GO ME!
[quote]Our First Amendment gives every citizen the
right to express his opinion and we
will allow you every opportunity to do so!
But once you are done complaining....... whining...... and griping....... about our flag.......
our pledge...... our national motto........or our
way of life.... [/quote]

So in short, 'Say whatever you want as long as it's something we want to hear.' Long live free speech.
The founders of this country wanted to live in a land where you could say "[i]The King is an idiot! We want to change the way things are run around here[/i]," and where saying this would not get you tossed in prison or charged as a traitor. The whole point of democracy is that you are able to state what is wrong with the system and that someone will listen to you.
Now what have we got? Five years since we got into this ill-conceived war and long since we've [i]known [/i]that we were lied to, NOW the left wing is finally getting up the chutzpah to say "The President is an idiot! We want to change the way things are run around here." And it's still dangerous to say this without some government agency blowing your head off.
Democracy is not meant to cater to the wants of a specific set upper-class Christian minority. We, as America, are supposed to stand for the rights and views of all of our people - not all of America is made of Christian evangelical Intelligent-Design right wingers. I have friends in a Catholic school who are athiest and agnostic. I've volunteered at Meals on Wheels and not cared that one of the helpers was Jewish. There have been countless stories of perfectly innocent Arab-American citizens being pulled aside in airports and similar simply because they happen to look very Arabic. They're not a faceless bunch of pagan radicals who want to slaughter every unborn baby and turn the crucifixes and American flags into kindling, which appears to be what you think we are.

And for the record, I'm seriously considering moving to Canada when I grow up. The state that America has fallen into is sickening. (And I bet you all will be pushing me towards the border.)

[benedictaj]

[quote name='sraf' date='Jan 20 2006, 07:31 PM'][snip]
So in short, 'Say whatever you want as long as it's something we want to hear.'  Long live free speech.
The founders of this country wanted to live in a land where you could say "[i]The King is an idiot! We want to change the way things are run around here[/i]," and where saying this would not get you tossed in prison or charged as a traitor.  The whole point of democracy is that you are able to state what is wrong with the system and that someone will listen to you.
Now what have we got? Five years since we got into this ill-conceived war and long since we've [i]known [/i]that we were lied to, NOW the left wing is finally getting up the chutzpah to say "The President is an idiot! We want to change the way things are run around here."  And it's still dangerous to say this without some government agency blowing your head off.
[snip]
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Really? hmmmm, I have to say I agree with you. (from the rest of your post ) I haven't heard an opinion like this since joining the board in June last year. Most people I know think like that as well, but then again, I'm not in America, so it's different for us. We only see what you Government does, and we live with the mild side effects. Whereas, I can't imagine what it would be like actually living in America.........

Anyway, God bless y'all.

[Lil Red]

i wouldn't move to Canada

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='sraf' date='Jan 20 2006, 12:31 AM']NOW the left wing is finally getting up the chutzpah to say "The President is an idiot! We want to change the way things are run around here."  And it's still dangerous to say this without some government agency blowing your head off.

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When [b]hasn't[/b] the left wing called the president an idiot? I thought that when I moved to Europe I'd hear more of it over here, but I heard it far more often at home. I mean, I personally don't think the president is all that bright, and I never agreed with the war, but the histrionic and shrill paranoia about America becoming some fascistic nation where nobody is allowed to speak ill of the president is childish and ridiculous. Michael Moore and Al Franken are still alive and well, among others -- and the last I checked, thousands of people have been able to protest the war and the presidency without being shot or barrelled over by tanks.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jan 20 2006, 12:38 PM']When [b]hasn't[/b] the left wing called the president an idiot?
[/quote]

The problem is that the right is chiming in more & more.

[Quietfire]

[quote name='sraf' date='Jan 20 2006, 02:31 AM'] The whole point of democracy is that you are able to state what is wrong with the system and that someone will listen to you.[right][snapback]861632[/snapback][/right]
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The whole point of democracy is that you are able to state what is wrong (or what you think is wrong), and an intelligent person would at least offer a solution.

There is no guarantee though, that someone will listen to you.

[Quietfire]

[quote name='sraf' date='Jan 20 2006, 02:31 AM']I won't forward this because I don't agree with it.  I'M PART OF THE PROBLEM! GO ME!
So in short, 'Say whatever you want as long as it's something we want to hear.'  Long live free speech.
The founders of this country wanted to live in a land where you could say "[i]The King is an idiot! We want to change the way things are run around here[/i]," and where saying this would not get you tossed in prison or charged as a traitor.  The whole point of democracy is that you are able to state what is wrong with the system and that someone will listen to you.
Now what have we got? Five years since we got into this ill-conceived war and long since we've [i]known [/i]that we were lied to, NOW the left wing is finally getting up the chutzpah to say "The President is an idiot! We want to change the way things are run around here."  And it's still dangerous to say this without some government agency blowing your head off.
Democracy is not meant to cater to the wants of a specific set upper-class Christian minority.  We, as America, are supposed to stand for the rights and views of all of our people - not all of America is made of Christian evangelical Intelligent-Design right wingers. I have friends in a Catholic school who are athiest and agnostic. I've volunteered at Meals on Wheels and not cared that one of the helpers was Jewish. There have been countless stories of perfectly innocent Arab-American citizens being pulled aside in airports and similar simply because they happen to look very Arabic. They're not a faceless bunch of pagan radicals who want to slaughter every unborn baby and turn the crucifixes and American flags into kindling, which appears to be what you think we are.

And for the record, I'm seriously considering moving to Canada when I grow up. The state that America has fallen into is sickening.  (And I bet you all will be pushing me towards the border.)
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So you just read the papers and watch the nightly news and suddenly ALL of America is out for the blood of every person who happens to look very Arabic? What about the 2 year old who was banned from bording his plane because he had a name that showed up in a national database of known terrorists. Yeah, right. A two year old with an uzi and a pilots license. Thats right. They didnt care about his race, religion, or the fact that he was a citizen, not to mention he was still in diapers! His name was on the list. His name matched the name on the list so no going to see grandma for him.

But you didnt mention that, did you? The reporters live for the stuff you typed about above. They feed on it like an only rooster in a loaded hen house , and get you all fired up so you can rant about how unfair this country is towards any person who isnt white, Christian and holds a triple A card. Well bowl me over if I only fit one of those descriptions!
They love to fuel the fire of hatred and you let them feed it to you in big forkfulls.

Hey, I do not like the fact that someone MAY be removed from a line at an airport because he MAY fit a description of a known terrorist. Or he MAY have a name that shows up in a known terrorist database list. I get even more peeved when it happens to someone JUST BECAUSE he looks "suspicious". Even more so because he happens to look very Arabic.

But dont assume that every person in this country is out for blood. Dont assume that the nightly news is your friend bringing you the UNBIASED truth 24/7. And isnt it amazing that they always happen to be at the airport or where ever when these random events happen. Hmmmmm. That's always been my first question-How'd they find out SO fast??

If you want to see changes in this country you have two options. Stay and work to help to make a better country or, as you suggested, you can move to another country, whereby there is one less person screaming about how HORRIBLE America is and offering no creative solutions to correct the situation.

Again, the constitution does allow for every citizen the right to free speech. It does not guarrantee that anyone will listen. So if youre not happy with the leadership, then lead by example. Be a better leader. Be a better person. It doesnt matter how old or young you are, so dont use the age issue on me. Positive changes start on the inside. If all you do in a group is complain, then next thing you know everyone is complaining and no one is working towards a solution.

Instead of being part of the problem, be part of the solution.



Pax

Edited January 20, 2006 by Quietfire

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Jan 20 2006, 04:09 PM']Instead of being part of the problem, be part of the solution.

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[musturde]

[quote]There have been countless stories of perfectly innocent Arab-American citizens being pulled aside in airports and similar simply because they happen to look very Arabic.
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Alright, i'll just contradict you on this one point. All Arabs are Middle Easterns but not all Middle Easterns are Arabs. "Arabic" refers to a characteristic of the "arabs". It does not refer to a ethnicity. Afghani's are not Arab. Neither are Jordinians, Egyptians, Lebanese... so on and so on. Most Middle Eastern countries claim they are Arab but they don't always agree on its true meaning. There are different definitions for an arab (mostly bs). Those who can trace their ancestors back to the Arab Peninsula are the real arabs. These countries are: Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen. Some people identify Arabs by just speaking the language "Arabic". That's as stupid as telling Americans they're English because they speak English. Others claim it because they're just part of the area. It's like Canadians saying they're Americans because they're in North America.


Just a verification, some people don't care, others get offended. I personally wouldn't get offended, it's just annoying after a while lol.

However, your correct, they do check middle easterns at the airport. It gets annoying because it's soo obvious but to ensure safety, that's what people have to do. It's interesting that America is the most targeted nation for extremists (possibly the same level as Israel) but has not been attacked once since 9/11. The measures are sometimes questionable but they get the job done.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Jan 20 2006, 02:24 PM']The problem is that the right is chiming in more & more.
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More than the left? Not really. Certainly not from my experience -- that is, living in a very blue state and working for a public university for several years. Maybe it depends on which area someone lives in. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling the far right a group of quiet spotless little lambs -- I certainly didn't like the way they handled the whole Clinton/Lewinsky business, for one thing. But for people to claim that the left doesn't get to have their say is way off base.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jan 20 2006, 06:05 PM']More than the left? Not really. Certainly not from my experience -- that is, living in a very blue state and working for a public university for several years. Maybe it depends on which area someone lives in. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling the far right a group of quiet spotless little lambs -- I certainly didn't like the way they handled the whole Clinton/Lewinsky business, for one thing. But for people to claim that the left doesn't get to have their say is way off base.
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I was basically saying that while the 'left' says Bush is an idiot, there are more & more 'rights' that are chiming in that he is an idiot as well.

Not sure what base you're on...Echo Base?

[Socrates]

[quote name='sraf' date='Jan 20 2006, 12:31 AM']NOW the left wing is finally getting up the chutzpah to say "The President is an idiot! We want to change the way things are run around here."  And it's still dangerous to say this without some government agency blowing your head off.
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[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jan 20 2006, 12:38 PM']Michael Moore and Al Franken are still alive and well, among others -- and the last I checked, thousands of people have been able to protest the war and the presidency without being shot or barrelled over by tanks.
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Very true! LOL

Sraf - have you known [b]anybody[/b] in this country who's gotten his head blown off by "some government agency" for criticizing the President??
This sort of completely nonsensical talk is part of what makes it hard to take the Left seriously.
This silliness is just a way for those on the Left to give themselves a sense of exaggerated importance ("We're not just protesters - we're brave martyrs for the cause, risking our lives fighting an evil fascist regime!")

And most of your post is just incoherent craziness.
[quote]Democracy is not meant to cater to the wants of a specific set upper-class Christian minority.  We, as America, are supposed to stand for the rights and views of all of our people - not all of America is made of Christian evangelical Intelligent-Design right wingers[/quote]
And it is absurd for a Catholic to complain that this country is too Christian.
It is impossible for a nation's governence to be completely values-neutral, or be ruled by [b]everybody's[/b] values, as these will conflict. [b]Some[/b] set of values and principles must form the basis of law and government.

If you'd rather live in a country governed by Islamic principles, go to Iran!

If you'd rather live in a country governed by atheistic principles, go to Red China or North Korea! (There you'd learn what it's [b]really[/b] like to live without freedom!)

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote]Not sure what base you're on...Echo Base?
[/quote]

If you would have been a little bit more clear about what it was the right was chiming about, I wouldn't be stuck on Echo Base!








































If you would have been a little bit more clear about what it was the right was chiming about, I wouldn't be stuck on Echo Base!