for fear of offending...

[benedictaj]

[quote name='magnificat' date='Jan 18 2006, 04:27 PM']I think that everyone would do well to remember that first we are all human and we should think of ourselves as that above all else (as one of my friends put it!)  If we did, I think that we would have fewer squabbles over "national identity" or whatever it is.
I think that the example you offered about screaming was definately out of line for the Govenor, no matter what the cause was.  It is even worse simply because he didn't speak English well...honestly, most high school graduates, unfortunately, can't use the English language properly and we complain about people who are new to the country not being able to speak it?  Give me a break.

There's a difference between the "Happy Holidays" nonsense and asking immigrants to entirely give up their culture/beliefs to become "American."  I think that the issue is getting complicated by blurring the line between the two.  Frankly, I think that America can use a blending in of some other culture's philosophies; so far, I've yet to see a culture be 100% on the ball.  For example, I'm 2nd generation Chinese and there is something to be said for the virtue of respecting your elders that seems to be lacking in this culture.

Furthermore, it's one thing for me to wish you "Merry Christmas", but it's an entirely different for me to force you to say "Merry Christmas."
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You are awesome! Thank you!!!

As a non-American, I am continually fascinated and perplexed by America! But, your post pretty much sums up what I think. That Governor screaming at the cashier was fully out of line - people had a "right" to kick up a fuss, because that man was being marginalised! Countries should respect cultural differences, and allow the variety to remain the "spice of life!" Seriously, how boring would the world be if every one had the exact same opinions?!?

I still think that immigrants need to learn the language of the new country - but English is a VERY hard language to learn!! There are all sorts of irregularities and inconsistencies! If English is your first language, you are lucky. Afterall, it is native speakers of English that go to France, Italy, China etc, and expect the cashiers to converse in English.......sorry, its a pet peeve of mine.....

Sorry if I'm out of line, and also, by saying "you" I'm being generic.....just thought I'd clear that up. and thank you again, Magnificat!

[Ash Wednesday]

It's my hope that the United States will continue to be a "melting pot" -- I don't think that one should sweep their culture under the rug and I think maintaining one's culture can be done without taking political correctness too far. I do agree that when people come here, they need to learn English. In Sweden and Norway when people gain residency to live there, immigrants are able to attend free classes to learn Swedish or Norwegian. And I stress that one has to immigrate there LEGALLY to have access to these courses.

Back when I worked with many Mexican migrant workers in a corn processing plant, a lot of the people there were trying to learn English. I recall our parish had a Sunday group where volunteers would help immigrants learn English after the Spanish Mass.

The reality is if anyone wants to be a fully functioning member of the work force in the U.S. -- and to be capable of getting a job that makes any substantial amount of money to support a family, then they are going to have to know English. The heavy labor jobs performed by those that don't know much English are pretty grueling -- I don't think most can be held long-term without suffering from health problems. (The plant I worked at was very dangerous -- I saw people throw out their backs or get repetitive strain injuries quite often.) Not knowing the native language of a country makes one feel alienated and marginalized from society -- and most make the effort to overcome that by learning English. If someone is too lazy to learn English then they probably won't be able to do much with themselves. Most immigrants with the kind of can-do attitude that would make a Republican proud are not this way, though.

Here is something that I find ridiculous: here in the U.K. there are some places where courthouses are removing the word "marriage" from the signs where couples get marriage licenses and the word "marriage" has been removed from the chamber where couples get legally married (it's gone from "Crown Marriage Suite" to the "Crown Suite") because they are worried that gays registering for civil partnerships would be offended.

What is also ridiculous are guidelines offered which also suggest altering couples' stationery from "Your Wedding" to "Your Ceremony." (Forget that -- mine's going to be nice and "offensive" -- an invitation to celebrate the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony at a Roman Catholic church.... LOL...)

P.S. I have to admit that I can't stand it when people send chain letters and commentary that attempt to emotionally blackmail you into sending it on, i.e. "If you love Jesus, then you'll pass this on" or in the case above "if you're not forwarding this you're part of the problem." My response is -- people such as myself don't always like getting Sentimental Spam in their mailboxes and to irritate others by doing the same hinders the intended message.

[azaelia]

edit

[Luthien]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jan 18 2006, 07:08 AM']It's my hope that the United States will continue to be a "melting pot" -- I don't think that one should sweep their culture under the rug and I think maintaining one's culture can be done without taking political correctness too far. I do agree that when people come here, they need to learn English. In Sweden and Norway when people gain residency to live there, immigrants are able to attend free classes to learn Swedish or Norwegian. And I stress that one has to immigrate there LEGALLY to have access to these courses. 

Back when I worked with many Mexican migrant workers in a corn processing plant, a lot of the people there were trying to learn English. I recall our parish had a Sunday group where volunteers would help immigrants learn English after the Spanish Mass.

The reality is if anyone wants to be a fully functioning member of the work force in the U.S. -- and to be capable of getting a job that makes any substantial amount of money to support a family, then they are going to have to know English. The heavy labor jobs performed by those that don't know much English are pretty grueling -- I don't think most can be held long-term without suffering from health problems. (The plant I worked at was very dangerous -- I saw people throw out their backs or get repetitive strain injuries quite often.) Not knowing the native language of a country makes one feel alienated and marginalized from society -- and most make the effort to overcome that by learning English. If someone is too lazy to learn English then they probably won't be able to do much with themselves. Most immigrants with the kind of can-do attitude that would make a Republican proud are not this way, though.

Here is something that I find ridiculous: here in the U.K. there are some places where courthouses are removing the word "marriage" from the signs where couples get marriage licenses and the word "marriage" has been removed from the chamber where couples get legally married (it's gone from "Crown Marriage Suite" to the "Crown Suite") because they are worried that gays registering for civil partnerships would be offended.

What is also ridiculous are guidelines offered which also suggest altering couples' stationery from "Your Wedding" to "Your Ceremony." (Forget that -- mine's going to be nice and "offensive" -- an invitation to celebrate the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony at a Roman Catholic church.... LOL...)

P.S. I have to admit that I can't stand it when people send chain letters and commentary that attempt to emotionally blackmail you into sending it on, i.e. "If you love Jesus, then you'll pass this on" or in the case above "if you're not forwarding this you're part of the problem."  My response is -- people such as myself don't always like getting Sentimental Spam in their mailboxes and to irritate others by doing the same hinders the intended message.
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:tumbsup:

[Jake Huether]

Yeah. I think I agree with pretty much everything. There's just something that rubs me wrong when we get into the immigrant's learning enlish issue.

I think there's a fine line between being patriotic, and being a biggot. I'm not saying this dude is a biggot. But there's a lot of confussion. A patriot loves his country and what the country was built on. A biggot loves the way things are and is affraid to accept others the way they are if they are different.

Look, America was built on Christian principals. If an immigrant doesn't like it... to bad. Agreed.

America was built on the principal of freedom for all and we faught for it, and that's what the Stars and Stripes signifies. If an immigrant doesn't like it... to bad. Agreed.

America was NOT built on the English language. No one faught for "English". No one died or drew blood or even so much as sweated for the principal of "English". In fact, the English we speak now is a far cry from the English that was spoken when the first settlers landed on American soil. And if you want to get all technical, Ameria's first language(s) was that of the Native American. And it was the English speaking IMMIGRANTS who killed them and forced them to addapt to their ways. If this is "our way of life", maybe it is our duty to addapt to the immigrants culture. Since that's exactly what we did to the first Americans. So I wouldn't play any language cards, lest we decide that the real language that Americans should speak is some Native American dialect.

It sounds like this dude is "offended" that there are other languages out there. GET OVER IT. Hahaha. We don't all speak english. And quite frankly, one can live a long, happy, and free life without ever learning a single english word.

Okay... I'm off my soapbox. God bless America.

[Didacus]

I used to be patriotic... now I wouldn't fight a single war for my country (Canada). i can understand how people in Spain feel.

I just want to go to sleep for a hundred years until all this ugliness is over.

[Era Might]

Little Italy and Chinatown are just as "American" as eating hot dogs and hamburgers on the fourth of July.

[ardillacid]

Edited January 18, 2006 by ardillacid

[Quietfire]

Hey Jake I totally agree with you and quite a few other posts here.
That is why I didnt want to offend anyone by putting this here.
I was all gun ho about the email until I got to the part about the language. I live in a very culturally mixed area, and I work in one of the largest culturally mixed employments. We have all kinds here, and we all enjoy the differences. We celebrate EVERY holiday possible. Its what America is. Celebrating the differences between us and learning and growing.
Like I said in another post. I have an asian cousin and a black sister. Actually, my sister and I adopted each other because we've known each other so long now, and couldnt imagine life without the other. Her son is my son, and he is beautiful...really. Gonna be a heartbreaker. ANYWAY.....I love the fact that my family has grown this way. I celebrate it.
As far as me being Cherokee Indian? Hey, if ya'll wanna learn the language? Good luck trying. Actually, it isnt that hard. Lakota is much more difficult.
I know how this country was founded. On the backs of the natives who lived here, this wasnt their "country", it was their home. But this country was also built on the backs of other 'natives' who either immigrated here of their own accord, or were forced here against their wills. One way or another, sacrifices were made to make this country what it is today, and that is the kindest way to put it. I am not downplaying any one cultures role over another, what I am saying is this....

This is America, our country, our home. We are a family of many splendid things and many splendid colors...God loves variety and we've got it all baby. We are hot dogs and apple pie, Egg rolls and pizza, tacos, so very tasty and good for you, and wienerschnitzel, collard greens and veggie burgers, rap and rock-n-roll (ok that last one is not a food, but it still counts!! It's OURS!!) But even if I wasnt a Christian, I would still respect the fact that this country was "founded" on Christian principles. Take the "Christian" out of that and what principles are you left with?

How easy it must be for those who wish to remove God from their reasoning. I only ask what they plan on replacing God with? It certainly isnt logic...or sanity.

I am happy so many people here see America as I do.
Lets have a party and celebrate our differences!!
So what if you cant speak english, you can still bring your favorite dish, I'll eat it. I'll try anything once.

Pax.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Jake Huether' date='Jan 18 2006, 09:34 AM']It sounds like this dude is "offended" that there are other languages out there.  GET OVER IT.  Hahaha.  We don't all speak english.  And quite frankly, one can live a long, happy, and free life without ever learning a single english word. 

Okay... I'm off my soapbox.  God bless America.
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True -- I don't think people should be offended by immigrants speaking their native tongue. I do think that for practical reasons, immigrants should learn English, however -- not because of some national pride issue -- but if someone was immigrating to this country and wanted to be integrated in it, I would advise them to learn it for their own sake for finding jobs and meeting people -- and most of them do this. It would also make dialogue between various cultural groups much smoother as well -- and help avoid or resolve differences and misconceptions that arise when living in an area that does house various kinds of people.

[musturde]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jan 18 2006, 01:09 PM']True -- I don't think people should be offended by immigrants speaking their native tongue. I do think that for practical reasons, immigrants should learn English, however  -- not because of some national pride issue -- but if someone was immigrating to this country and wanted to be integrated in it, I would advise them to learn it for their own sake for finding jobs and meeting people -- and most of them do this. It would also make dialogue between various cultural groups much smoother as well -- and help avoid or resolve differences and misconceptions that arise when living in an area that does house various kinds of people.
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Anyone who moves to a country and expects to work there should learn the language of the country. Even if it's a little broken, the person should be able to do his or her job without a language barrier preventing him or her from doing so. Asking anything more is none of our business. The immigrants who do actually pull a frenzy about seeing an American flag shouldn't even be in America. To be offended by a flag is to be offended by its nation, it makes no sense. I don't believe the carp about taking out our traditions tied with Christianity because of immigrants. If the people in charge of changing our traditions claim it's not to offend immigrants, I won't buy it.

[avemaria40]

Aren't alot of immigrants Christian anyway? I mean, we get a huge influx of Hispanic/Latino immigrants, most of whom are Catholic, and the minority of them are Protestant. So there you don't really have a problem

[musturde]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Jan 19 2006, 06:19 PM']Aren't alot of immigrants Christian anyway?  I mean, we get a huge influx of Hispanic/Latino immigrants, most of whom are Catholic, and the minority of them are Protestant.  So there  you don't really have a problem
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Exactly.

[Socrates]

[quote name='musturde' date='Jan 19 2006, 06:10 PM']Anyone who moves to a country and expects to work there should learn the language of the country. Even if it's a little broken, the person should be able to do his or her job without a language barrier preventing him or her from doing so. Asking anything more is none of our business. The immigrants who do actually pull a frenzy about seeing an American flag shouldn't even be in America. To be offended by a flag is to be offended by its nation, it makes no sense. I don't believe the carp about taking out our traditions tied with Christianity because of immigrants. If the people in charge of changing our traditions claim it's not to offend immigrants, I won't buy it.
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Very true.

If I were to leave America and become a citizen of another country, I'd sure as heck better make a serious attempt to learn their language, and respect their traditions, flag, etc.!

No different for those coming here!

[Socrates]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Jan 19 2006, 06:19 PM']Aren't alot of immigrants Christian anyway?  I mean, we get a huge influx of Hispanic/Latino immigrants, most of whom are Catholic, and the minority of them are Protestant.  So there  you don't really have a problem
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Well there are the Asians. . . . But I think the only people really getting offended are white liberals with a beef against Christ.