Bush Signs Torture Ban

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Jan 17 2006, 05:41 PM']they close their eyes, plug their ears and go into a cave.  It's called selective hearing.  They hear what they want.  They ignore the murder, treason and theft of our civil liberities and instead focus on more important issues, like homosexuality.
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no... it is only the terrorists that hide in the caves

except that the [i]murderous dictator [/i] pictured in you avatar... he jumped down a spider-hole

Edited January 19, 2006 by Lounge Daddy

[Jaime]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Jan 18 2006, 09:02 PM']personally, i only condemn "liberalism" ... and the answer is YES - and that is [i]my[/i] opinion
Wow – did it cross your narrow mind that congressional geniuses looking at re-election and politics maybe are circumventing Constitutional provisions to pass a “feel good” bill of “no torture”
It is the President’s constitutional responsibility to act as commander and chief of the military… and his job alone to see to the workings and procedures of how our country’s defenses are conducted.
The senate members have decided to play politics with this war (it IS an election year, after all) a[b]nd pass an bill that would grant due-process to enemy combatants – in other words, people from other countries who wanna see us all dead … would be granted protection under our US Constitution [i]as if they were common crooks…[/b]
[/i]
[b]This has never been done during a time of war in the USA …ever!
[/b]
This is stupid, suicidal, and ignorant
And this is lead by the liberal Democrats and liberal Republicans --- and the spineless other politicians who are afraid of people saying that if they do not support this bill that they are “for torture”
Well, this is the stupid part of politics
And it is this ignorant side of politics that prompted President Lincoln to proclaim that [b]“the Constitution is not a suicide pact!”
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Yeah speaking of ignorant. The torture ban mentions nothing about due process.

Zero

Zip

Nada


it does mention that no one will be subject to cruel or inhumane treatment.

So yeah, if Bush is not supporting the bill, he wants the option to torture. You need to read Mccains amendment


And yes the President is in charge of the Military. But no where does the constitution give him the right to rewrite laws.

Then we have the Church's stance Lounge Daddy. The Church stands against torture.

[Lounge Daddy]

aha - right
but then, everyone is against torture...
just as environmental activists pushing some law assuming anybody opposing the law is "anti-environment"

[Lounge Daddy]

but about this law ...
[quote]Senator John McCain’s confusing and vague amendment, calling for a government-wide ban on coercive interrogation, appears to be a done deal. But President Bush should really bear the political heat and veto it. The longer one wrestles with it, the more the McCain amendment forebodes a national-security catastrophe. The legislation should be scrapped altogether, or, at the very least, drastically amended to replace its Bill of Rights references — at once lazy and perilous — with a careful, honest effort to grapple with the propriety of specific interrogation methods.
Absent that, al Qaeda terrorists captured in battle by members of our armed forces — the American soldiers they are trying to kill — would not only be protected from rough interrogation. They may very well have to be given Miranda warnings as well as free lawyers — underwritten by the Americans they are trying to kill.
Basically, under Section 1, al Qaeda terrorists, despite having no rights under the pertinent Geneva Convention, would be rewarded with deferential treatment similar to that given honorable prisoners of war. They would be protected not only from torture (which is already illegal) but also from “cruel treatment” and affronts to “personal dignity” that might be regarded as “humiliating” or “degrading.”

This is unwise, but it pales in comparison to the less apparent disaster that the amendment’s second prong could be. Section 2 would not merely coddle al Qaeda and deprive the United States of life-saving intelligence. It is, potentially, an unfathomable windfall for the terror network.
McCain borrows the term cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment (CID) from the 1984 United Nations Convention Against Torture and Cruel, Inhuman, and Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT). When the Senate ratified UNCAT in 1994, it enacted a significant reservation: the CID terms were limited to what was already covered under U.S. law by three Bill of Rights provisions: the Fifth, Eighth and Fourteenth amendments to the Constitution.

As I’ve argued, here, this caveat reduced CID to a virtual nullity. The Bill of Rights does not apply to non-Americans situated outside U.S. territory. Under current law, UNCAT’s CID terms are thus unavailing to alien enemy combatants captured and held in foreign countries during wartime. Such captives may not be tortured, but CID poses no legal obstacle to aggressive tactics that fall short of torture. Tactics that yield intelligence which saves the lives of American citizens and soldiers.

It would mean, for example, that an al Qaeda terrorist in the custody of our armed forces in Afghanistan would have more rights than a nonviolent illegal alien detained in Texas after being caught trying to sneak across the border. The latter has no due-process rights under American law because he hasn’t succeeded in entering our country.

But things could actually get much stranger, and worse, than that. The Fifth Amendment — made part of the definition of “cruel, inhuman, and degrading” by McCain, contains the privilege against self-incrimination. It used to be that this privilege simply meant freedom from being forced to speak against your will — which at least has the resonance of torture and other forms of obvious coercion.[/quote]
[url="http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:X9iIjXGBzc4J:www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200512151421.asp+torture+bill+due+process&hl=en&client=firefox-a"]--- from article HERE[/url]