What is a living wage?

[Sojourner]

The leftist publication [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/magazine/15wage.html?adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1137351607-3yn4qlXdmT32ISX/RXA6Mw"]the New York Times[/url] has an article on movements to establish a living wage.

[Quietfire]

Without reading it...
It'll never be enough.
The cost of living will always be higher than the living wage. Just get over it and live the best life you can with what the Good Lord gives ya, ya know?



Gosh, I love your avatar Sojourner. That is soooo cool.

Edited January 17, 2006 by Quietfire

[qfnol31]

Minimum wages are not necessarily the best way to go about helping the poor.

In fact, it normally creates a shortage of jobs available to those who need work. It works the same way a price floor for a product does. Less people are willing/are able to offer jobs with higher wages (especially restaurants).

That said, it also drives up costs and igitur the cost of living in general.

[journeyman]

I think that issue was addressed in the article . . . not that it was resolved
a "living" wage depends on the "cost" of what is necessary to live . . . so "rent and price controls" could lower the levels needed for a living wage . . . if that solution didn't run afoul of other "rights"

[qfnol31]

If you have a cap on the price for things, then there will be a smaller supply of housing and things.

[Socrates]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jan 16 2006, 05:56 PM']Minimum wages are not necessarily the best way to go about helping the poor.

In fact, it normally creates a shortage of jobs available to those who need work.  It works the same way a price floor for a product does.  Less people are willing/are able to offer jobs with higher wages (especially restaurants).

That said, it also drives up costs and igitur the cost of living in general.
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[/quote]
True.

Artificially elevated wages mean that employers can afford to hire fewer workers, which leads to more people being unemployed, which in turn weakens the economy as a whole, and leads to lower actual wages and more people in poverty.

This is explained in depth in [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0739110365/sr=1-1/qid=1137114440/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2323353-4496057?%5Fencoding=UTF8"][i]The Church and The Market[/i], by Thomas E. Woods[/url]

[jezic]

i think the problem might be a lot more complicated than just wages.

THinking about it, if 5.15 was worth something, it woudln't be a problem at all, but that doesn't buy much when you have a family to support.

The real thing is that inflation has been crazy which has made 5 dollars a very small amount.

It is interesting to note that most of the money in america is held by like 1 or 2 percent of the population.

[qfnol31]

I only know one person who makes minimum wage, and believe me, he doesn't need that much!

It is kinda sad that a few people have most of the money, I agree.

I actually know many people who can support themselves off of a $7-an-hour wage.

[jezic]

Here where i live 7 isn't so bad, but in some places the rapid housing development of suburbs/etc. has sent costs through the roof.

The whole gasoline mess has to hurt people who only make this much money.

As the article states though a lot of it is probably immigrant/college student jobs.

Some places also keep the wages right above minimum (say at like 550 now) so that they can avoid part of the controversy but still really pay their people nothing.

[Carrie]

A $7 an hour wage wouldn't even cover rent here.

I think people are entitled to earn a living wage. Making minimum wage leaves people living below the poverty line. Why shouldn't men and women who work hard earn enough money to feed their families?

[track2004]

We have a living wage here in Bloomington, IN... or I think they passed it. It's a nice idea, but it seems like it'd just drive the cost of everything else up. It's the same debate when they raise minimum wage basically. Also I think a lot of it depends on what you need to get by. I mean living in a hovel and eating PB&J every day isn't fun, but I bet you can do it in most medium sized cities on $5.15 if you work basically 40 hours a week. The problems come with commuting and getting sick.

[rkwright]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jan 16 2006, 06:56 PM']Minimum wages are not necessarily the best way to go about helping the poor.

In fact, it normally creates a shortage of jobs available to those who need work.  It works the same way a price floor for a product does.  Less people are willing/are able to offer jobs with higher wages (especially restaurants).

That said, it also drives up costs and igitur the cost of living in general.
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[/quote]

the opposite is also true... a completely free market with an abundant supply of labor, put the companies in charge. In cutting costs they can lower it to nearly nothing.

People have to work, so the labor is pretty inelastic, which leaves the price pretty much in the companies demand curve...

[God the Father]

Pardon my ignorance.....what is a living wage?

[Azriel]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Jan 17 2006, 12:45 PM']A $7 an hour wage wouldn't even cover rent here.

I think people are entitled to earn a living wage.  Making minimum wage leaves people living below the poverty line.  Why shouldn't men and women who work hard earn enough money to feed their families?
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I'm not even going to begin to say I have all the answers, but a two parent household with a child, or more, with a father working for minimum wage, and a mother staying home to raise their children - they would not be able to live on 5.15 an hour - let alone 7. And I'm not talking having lots of extra luxuries either.

Coupled with the fact that most minimum wage jobs do not include health insurance, and you are looking at the kiss of death for most families.

I know this, because I lived it. My dad worked amazingly hard for very little - and there were times when it wasn't enough.

Fortunately, God always provided.

[jasJis]

I don't understand why society must provide a 'living wage' for tasks so menial and unskilled? According to the article, less than 3% of the US workers attempt to support themselves and/or a family at minimum wage. I'm dead set against an artifical 'living wage' because it doesn't really address the problem of endemic poverty. I've hired unskilled workers for decades and my father's been involved in St. Vincent De Paul for 50+ years. What is needed is access to training, temporary rent subsidies, transportation assistance, subsidized day care, and subsidized basic medical care. People need assistance to take advantage of the opportunities to succeed. Most people (not all) in low paying jobs are under-acheivers and only work enough to get food and pay rent and don't apply themselves. This is based on my experience with the many hundreds of people I've hired over the years. You don't need a college education to make $50 to $80 grand a year with full benefits, you need a work ethic.