rkwright Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 First off... I'd really rather aviod the bigger question and avoid the evolution vs creationism debate. I guess if someone wants to start another thread to debate that go for it... But I really like to hear the implications of buying into evolution. I should say by evolution I mean God still created the first cell or whatever, then it was His plan for us to be us. Does this have any implications on Orginal Sin or Free Will or the Fall of Adam?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I would say that "evolution" can happen when the couple (or animal) decides to procreate. That's when God must intervene to give the life (soul) and can work then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Darwinian evolution cannot, and should not be believed, for there is little or no scientific evidence supporting it. Charles Darwin was a heretic and is in the mouth of Satan in the centre of Hell with Brugus, Cassius, and Brutus. have I acted trad enough to get the "hello, i do not rep the church" under my avatar yet???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Jan 16 2006, 01:05 AM']Darwinian evolution cannot, and should not be believed, for there is little or no scientific evidence supporting it. Charles Darwin was a heretic and is in the mouth of Satan in the centre of Hell with Brugus, Cassius, and Brutus. have I acted trad enough to get the "hello, i do not rep the church" under my avatar yet???? [right][snapback]857389[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You're a little young for such concerns. By the way, my type of evolution was Augustinian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Jan 16 2006, 01:05 AM']Darwinian evolution cannot, and should not be believed, for there is little or no scientific evidence supporting it. Charles Darwin was a heretic and is in the mouth of Satan in the centre of Hell with Brugus, Cassius, and Brutus. have I acted trad enough to get the "hello, i do not rep the church" under my avatar yet???? [right][snapback]857389[/snapback][/right] [/quote] hey man not cool, I asked an intelligent question and was looking for answers, not people trying to provide a POV in order to get a "hello, i do not rep" title. The Church has provided enough room in its teachings for one to accept either veiw point. I'm not an expert on how this forum works...but I'm pretty sure that being a 'trad' does not get the title you seek. you can be a Catholic and a 'trad'. Of course if you put forward views that are not in line with the Catholic faith you might get that title. Back to the question at hand. Does Christianity work without the Historic Adam and Fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Q so far I'm kinda with you... I see no problems, but I don't know if I'm missing something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 no. Original sin is the entire basis of the theology of the Catholic Church. Hello Adam and Eve sinned. None were allowed to enter Heaven. God himself was made flesh and sacrificed himself on clavary as an attonement for the sins of man. This was the greatest sacrifice ever performed. This same sacrifice is happens again at every Mass. God did so much for us. He asks that we do so little in return: Obey his commandments and love him. So no, Catholicism makes no sense witout a real person being adam or the Fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 [quote name='rkwright' date='Jan 15 2006, 09:39 PM'] But I really like to hear the implications of buying into evolution. [/quote] For one thing, you can't be too harsh on the Nazi's for their breeding programs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Darwinian evolution is a bit of a heresy. In Darwinian evolution there is no soul, and there is no God. Under this belief we, all of us, every living thing did not come for God and we have no soul, but rather we were created in somekind of magical cosmic goo, and there is no meaning to life other than to reproduce. In Darwinian evolution the missing link is still missing. Darwinian evolution is always changing decade by decade. Since Truth never changes in is very doubtful Darwinian evolution is truth, maybe some elements of truth but not The Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tata126 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Jan 16 2006, 12:05 AM']Darwinian evolution cannot, and should not be believed, for there is little or no scientific evidence supporting it. Charles Darwin was a heretic and is in the mouth of Satan in the centre of Hell with Brugus, Cassius, and Brutus. have I acted trad enough to get the "hello, i do not rep the church" under my avatar yet???? [right][snapback]857389[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If you accept it as an explanation for physical development, or if you recognize that when humans were given souls (when they still looked like monkeys? Why not? Genesis says that God breathed into clay...) they became essentially different from animals, and so evolution only works on humans before they became what makes us essentially human, then sure, you can believe it. I know that's not quite Darwin, but you can believe some of his precepts, and perhaps even be right. I mean, the man had some good ideas along with his bad ones. By the way, I think Dante's Satan is munching on Judas, Brutus and Cassius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Domini Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Rkwright it might be an idea to read the Catechetical Lectures of Cardinal Shonborn (and other writings of His Eminence) as they appear on the [url="http://www.cardinalschonborn.com/"]The Shonborn Site[/url]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Implications involve mainly philosophical questions, but there is little compelling scientific evidence to accept evolution. It is a theory with almost no substance at all. The main problems revolve around man being made in the image and likeness of God and all creatures being created perfectly functioning and good at the time of creation. All Catholics must believe that there was a first man and a first woman and that no other humans existed when they existed except their offspring. They are the parents of all of humanity. You must believe that God is the origin of everything that exists, and that Adam and Eve sinned and fell. While you don't have to believe Genesis 1 and 2 are scientific fact, you do indeed, have to believe that the truths they teach, did historically happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 As Cardinal Schonborn points out in his article [i]The Designs of Science[/i], modern science discounts, [i]a priori[/i] formal and final cause from its discussion and inquiry. Thus, neo-darwinism deals exclusively with material and efficient cause, not on accident, but as a matter of principle. Because I don't want to write out a treatise on this, suffice it to say that one can be a neo-darwinian if one is willing to admit that neo-darwinism is a discussion of only material and efficient cause, and if one is willing to acknowledge that formal and final cause can be looked at seperately. On a side note: as long as you believe that evolution did indeed create two first parents, one male and one female, and that God informed those First Parents with souls, that those first parents fell from a state of original justice into a state of original sin, and that the human race sprang from them, then you're fine. Your Brother In Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='Jan 16 2006, 02:33 AM']Darwinian evolution is a bit of a heresy. In Darwinian evolution there is no soul, and there is no God. Under this belief we, all of us, every living thing did not come for God and we have no soul, but rather we were created in somekind of magical cosmic goo, and there is no meaning to life other than to reproduce. In Darwinian evolution the missing link is still missing. Darwinian evolution is always changing decade by decade. Since Truth never changes in is very doubtful Darwinian evolution is truth, maybe some elements of truth but not The Truth. [right][snapback]857400[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The scientific theory of Darwinian evolution cannot make claims about the existence of a soul, or of God, or the meaning of life. Scientific theories are always changing, and make no claim to be the Truth. This is because all of these topics lie outside of the realm of science, which is limited to the physical realm, and is always tentative, based on the evidence available at a certain point in time. Those who claim any of these points that you have mentioned are not talking about the scientific theory, but about the ideologies many choose to draw from the scientific theory. These ideologies are not in line with the teaching of the Catholic Church, but have no bearing on the acceptability of a scientific theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 [quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Jan 16 2006, 02:17 AM']For one thing, you can't be too harsh on the Nazi's for their breeding programs.... [right][snapback]857396[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Someone I know was very into that type of thinking before he became a Christian, using Darwinian-based logic. His reasoning was that if people have evolved, it makes sense that some people would be further along than others. Since his conversion more than 30 years ago, he's gotten heavily into creationism as a reaction against the faulty beliefs of his youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now