infinitelord1 Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 havent there been popes who were permisscuous? and bad popes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 you bet! but they were not heretics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocky37 Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Hello, this is my 1st time on this board and I should admit that I am an ex-Catholic. I respect the church and the religion, even though it is not for me. I am NOT trying to start an arguement just talk back and forth. Isn't the very fact that the church claims the Pope is Perfect (therby being all knowing) heresy against the bible. Doesn't the bible claim only one perfect entity (jesus, the father, and the holy spirit). Let me know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 [quote name='rocky37' date='Jan 23 2006, 11:43 PM']Hello, this is my 1st time on this board and I should admit that I am an ex-Catholic. I respect the church and the religion, even though it is not for me. I am NOT trying to start an arguement just talk back and forth. Isn't the very fact that the church claims the Pope is Perfect (therby being all knowing) heresy against the bible. Doesn't the bible claim only one perfect entity (jesus, the father, and the holy spirit). Let me know what you think. [right][snapback]864469[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think you're a bit misinformed... no where do we claim the Pope is perfect especially by the meaning of 'all knowing'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 It would be if we declared the Pope perfect... Then he'd basically be god no? The Pope is infallible when teaching Ex Cathedra on matters of Faiths and Morals to my knowledge... Other than that, he is just as human as us I think these might help [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=45407&hl=pope"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...c=45407&hl=pope[/url] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=25829&hl="]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=25829&hl=[/url] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=18531&hl="]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=18531&hl=[/url] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=4716&hl="]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=4716&hl=[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 [quote name='rocky37' date='Jan 24 2006, 12:43 AM']Hello, this is my 1st time on this board and I should admit that I am an ex-Catholic. I respect the church and the religion, even though it is not for me. I am NOT trying to start an arguement just talk back and forth. Isn't the very fact that the church claims the Pope is Perfect (therby being all knowing) heresy against the bible. Doesn't the bible claim only one perfect entity (jesus, the father, and the holy spirit). Let me know what you think. [right][snapback]864469[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Welcome to the board. There are a lot of misunderstandings and misconceptions about the Catholic Church. The Pope is the successor of Peter the Apostle. Remember in the bible where and how Judas was replaced, we called that Apostolic Succession. Through Apostolic Succession we have the successor of Peter today, which is the Pope. The Apostles were the first Bishops, as the Church grew so did the number of Bishops. Here are a couple of links that can help clarify some things for you... [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/church_papacy.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/church_papacy.asp[/url] [url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/"]http://www.scripturecatholic.com/[/url] God Bless, ironmonk [url="http://www.CatholicSwag.com"]http://www.CatholicSwag.com[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 [quote name='rocky37' date='Jan 23 2006, 10:43 PM']Hello, this is my 1st time on this board and I should admit that I am an ex-Catholic. I respect the church and the religion, even though it is not for me. I am NOT trying to start an arguement just talk back and forth. Isn't the very fact that the church claims the Pope is Perfect (therby being all knowing) heresy against the bible. Doesn't the bible claim only one perfect entity (jesus, the father, and the holy spirit). Let me know what you think. [right][snapback]864469[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This contains several false claims. 1) The Pope is not perfect. He does sin. He can make errors about the future price of stocks. Even some of his writings may well contain things are are not completely correct. When he speaks on matters of faith and morals for the whole Church in his capacity as successor of Peter however he IS ALWAYS PERFECT. 2) This does not impy all knowing. It only says that when he speaks in this limited capacity he will not error. We can trust his words, i.e. the Holy Spirit will speak through him just as it spoke PERFECTLY through the 40 some odd scripture writers and even through the likes of Caiphas the High Priest. John 11 49] But one of them, Ca'iaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all; [50] you do not understand that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation should not perish." [51] He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation, [52] and not for the nation only, but to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 3) Perfection does not imply that one is God or all knowing or any kind of a diety. God is perfect of course but there are other beings that are perfect. Angels for instance. Also those who are in heaven are now perfect. This does not mean they are all knowing, though the do have access to the knowledge of God, yet have limited, finite capacity to comprehend the all knowing. Yet what they know is perfect. This distinction can be understood if one considers a red rubber ball. One understands it as a round object that is the color red and bounces. Another understands it as having certain elastic properties, a color on the color spectrum, and a certain radius. Does either have an imperfect knowledge of the ball? No. One has a deeper understanding. Yet it is not imperfect. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bx_racer Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 hmm well the crusades just seemed like a really big bad and the church supported it i dont know what was up with that. but hey it wasnt agaisnt Church teaching i guess. another thing however was the inquisition. i read in history class that the Church taught the Earth is the center of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 Crusades were good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Feb 1 2006, 02:51 PM']Crusades were good. [right][snapback]872299[/snapback][/right] [/quote] yeparooni... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 [quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Feb 1 2006, 04:38 PM']yeparooni... [right][snapback]872337[/snapback][/right] [/quote] despite what all the liberals think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 So we have the doctrine that teaches a Pope cannot teach error due to his infallibilty, *but if he does*, then.... (we must obey in all things but sin) is this what the teaching really comes down to? Or is it.. if it's the Pope can teach error.. and we must obey him in all but sin.. this is like saying there's no way to prove the CC wrong. You'd say of course there's not, but by the very virtue of this doctrine, even if the CC wasn't legitimate, there's no way to prove it................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Feb 1 2006, 04:54 PM']despite what all the liberals think [right][snapback]872345[/snapback][/right] [/quote] umm call me a liberal for this... but the 3rd crusade which ransacked canstantinople, killed eastern christians, and stole many of their relics, furthered the schism between the east and west, is hardly what I would call a good crusade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Might have been fourth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Feb 2 2006, 12:07 AM']Might have been fourth. [right][snapback]872683[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oops am I getting 'em mixed up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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