Action against Iran...

[Myles Domini]

With the EU, Russia and the U.S.A. seemingly all on the same side against Iran what are the feelings of the Phatpham on the issue of potential actions against Iran? Do you support action to prevent the Iranian nuclear programme? If so, why so? If not, why not? What kind of action would you potentially endore and what would you oppose?

Personally, I dont think we should be interfering in Iran. So what if they have a nucelar programme? What will they do attack the West? Even if they did they'd be absolutely annihilated. The U.S. alone has the arsenal to wipe out the planet three times over. Even if they did somehow manage to launch a nuclear warhead against some Western nation and even if, in the worst case scenario, the missile hit ground zero before being shot down the repercussions would be so swift and so unbelievably destructive that Iran would cease to exist. Unlike Hiroshima and Nagasaki there would be no chance for rebuilding the entire nation would be obliterated.

So...? Why are we so jittery? Personally if the Iranians want nuclear power I say give it to them and if some nutjob Iranian leader down the line decides he wants to try and take on the Occident I say bring it on. We'll get hit and we'll hit back harder. The West's (over)reaction to Iran to me wreaks of fear--and to an extent, cowardice. Why should we be afraid of a little country in Persia? To me thats a joke.

The war on terror will never be won if we keep giving off the impression that our civilisation is truly terrified...

Edited January 14, 2006 by Myles

[rkwright]

you think the west would react like that and get away with it? I mean if the US fired a nuke back and basically took Iran off the face of the world, I think the whole world would be angry at us. I think the UN and world would say, well were really sorry you got hit with a nuke, but lets use some restraint when going after them, maybe send in a peace keeping force.

[philothea]

Too tired to usefully discuss anything, but I voted "No."

I agree with you. (As usual.

[OLAM Dad]

I voted 'not sure' because of the way you worded your question. For example, I don't believe nuking Iran is appropriate. However, Iran has stated over and over to include just this week that Israel should be destroyed. The United States, as allies of Israel, cannot let them develop nuclear weapons. If the rest of the world wants to join in on trying to convince them not to continue with their nuclear ambitions or, should diplomacy fail, join in on the necessary military action to stop them they are welcome. I don't think we need their permission or approval however.

Regardless, the Israelis will not let them build nuclear bombs. If we don't do anything, they will. I think it's best for the world that we do something about this rather than the Israelis.

[rkwright]

[quote name='OLAM Dad' date='Jan 14 2006, 03:49 PM']I voted 'not sure' because of the way you worded your question.  For example, I don't believe nuking Iran is appropriate.  However, Iran has stated over and over to include just this week that Israel should be destroyed.  The United States, as allies of Israel, cannot let them develop nuclear weapons.  If the rest of the world wants to join in on trying to convince them not to continue with their nuclear ambitions or, should diplomacy fail, join in on the necessary military action to stop them they are welcome.  I don't think we need their permission or approval however.

Regardless, the Israelis will not let them build nuclear bombs.  If we don't do anything, they will.  I think it's best for the world that we do something about this rather than the Israelis.
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right on! I completely forgot about Israel in this picture. 'Regardless, the Israelis will not let them build nuclear bombs'. Personally I think Israel is one of the most competent military forces in the world today, and probably the best military in the Middle East (aside from the US in Iraq). Anyone who messes with them ends up getting pounded pretty hard.

[OLAM Dad]

[quote]TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.[/quote]
This is straight from the horses mouth.

[url="http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm"]Iran Press Service[/url]

[Myles Domini]

Israel unlike the West is not politically correct. If they get wind of any weapons programs just like they did in 1967 in the 6 days war they'll launch a pre-emptive strike and destroy it. As for the world being 'angry' rkwright I think if a country launched a nuke at you that you'd get quite a bit of sympathy for replying in kind.

I say let them build their nuclear programme. Why are we getting involved to try and stop a sovereign nation-state governing itself? If and only if they attack us should we go to war with them. They are not a threat and we shouldn't be treating them as such.

The West is shiverring simply at the name of Islamdom could Bin Laden have hoped for anything more at such an early stage in his Jihad?

Edited January 14, 2006 by Myles

[musturde]

I'd say America is right to interfere. Iran very much hates Israel and America. So what if they dont attack us, if they use it on Israel, it'd be disastrous.

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='musturde' date='Jan 14 2006, 09:15 PM']I'd say America is right to interfere. Iran very much hates Israel and America. So what if they dont attack us, if they use it on Israel, it'd be disastrous.
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You really think that Israel would actually let them use it? Not only is Israel's army a war machine that is as competant as any other army in the world but their intelligence network is efficient and excellent. As I said before Israel will attack and destroy any threat to it.

[Circle_Master]

[quote name='Myles' date='Jan 14 2006, 04:20 PM']You really think that Israel would actually let them use it? Not only is Israel's army a war machine that is as competant as any other army in the world but their intelligence network is efficient and excellent. As I said before Israel will attack and destroy any threat to it.
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That's a great philosophy. We should let our little ally take care of any immediate threat to their entire survival. We should also ignore Iran because they can't hurt us for a long time.

Besides the necessity to aid an ally, there is also a necessity to maintain balance in the middle east. Iraq is still in the process of recovering, Afghanistan is recovering. Iran, and any country in the middle east (except ironically for Israel), have been pushing to conquer surrounding islamic nations ever since they were created. With a region that has morals that say suicide and murder is okay if it is done for a chunk of paradise, there is a real need for concern about what is going on there.

I read news everyday related to the Middle East and it constantly feels like the world is tolerating a 3 year old kid. Islamic nations throw tantrums, they really do fulfill the stereotype of fundamentalist tyrannical nations. What happens when one of them feel Allah is telling them to nuke Israel for Allah's glory. They don't care about retribution, they will do it anyway. It has been said the most dangerous man to fight is the one who wants to die. Since a martyr is the greatest glory in Islam, we have much to worry about.

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='Circle_Master' date='Jan 14 2006, 09:35 PM']That's a great philosophy.  We should let our little ally take care of any immediate threat to their entire survival.  We should also ignore Iran because they can't hurt us for a long time.

Besides the necessity to aid an ally, there is also a necessity to maintain balance in the middle east.  Iraq is still in the process of recovering, Afghanistan is recovering.  Iran, and any country in the middle east (except ironically for Israel), have been pushing to conquer surrounding islamic nations ever since they were created.  With a region that has morals that say suicide and murder is okay if it is done for a chunk of paradise, there is a real need for concern about what is going on there.

I read news everyday related to the Middle East and it constantly feels like the world is tolerating a 3 year old kid.  Islamic nations throw tantrums, they really do fulfill the stereotype of fundamentalist tyrannical nations.  What happens when one of them feel Allah is telling them to nuke Israel for Allah's glory.  They don't care about retribution, they will do it anyway.  It has been said the most dangerous man to fight is the one who wants to die.  Since a martyr is the greatest glory in Islam, we have much to worry about.
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I disagree. Iran will not attack the West because terrorists are fundamentally cowardly individuals. You think too highly of a man who handcuffs himself to a car so that he wont run away before his 'martyrdom'. They are scared and they should be because we have the power to wipe them off the map and to be honest we should start acting like it rather than reacting with trepidation to everything that happens in Islamdom. In all honesty I'd be more worried about a military coup d'etat in Pakistan leading to the nuking of India over Kashmir than I would be of Iran.

Iran talks big but they're a small fish in a pond thats far too big for them. We should be confident. The average Iranian person is like the average German person in a nurembourg rally. Amongst the europhric and excited atmosphere of a crowd they find it easy to scream and shout and wail at the West. But start lining up their leaders against walls and shooting them and you'll soon find out how tough they really are! Not that I'm advocating such behaviour but you get my meaning.

I have no fear of Iran or Islamdom. If they want a war they need only declare it openly. Currently the few figures 'brave' enough to face the sheer might of the West's awesome military power attack like mongrels from the shadows; killing themselves with their victims so they dont have to face reprisals from the people they launch their foolish attacks upon. If a man doesn't have the intenstinal fortitude to face me in the light of day I refuse to have any fear of him. He is a coward and cowards are always the first to flee in the face of superior force.

[Circle_Master]

[quote name='Myles' date='Jan 14 2006, 04:45 PM']I disagree. Iran will not attack the West because terrorists are fundamentally cowardly individuals.
...
I have no fear of Iran or Islamdom. If they want a war they need only declare it openly. Currently the few figures 'brave' enough to face the sheer might of the West's awesome military power attack like mongrels from the shadows; killing themselves with their victims so they dont have to face reprisals from the people they launch their foolish attacks upon. If a man doesn't have the intenstinal fortitude to face me in the light of day I refuse to have any fear of him. He is a coward and cowards are always the first to flee in the face of superior force.
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Two things. With the rise of Khomeini Iran has adopted radical Islamic values into their society. You ackowledge that when you synonymously use "Iran" and "terrorists" in your first sentence. Terrorists have already attacked the west (9/11) and have openly declared war on "western infidels". So you are wrong on the first point.

The second paragraph (that I quoted) is irrelevant because Iran does not have to go to war with the U.S. They already support terrorists groups to do their work for them. They fund the hiz'ballah in Syria/Lebanon, and I'm sure they fund other terrorist groups as well.

Can we go to war with a nation who says "we are at peace!" and then turn around and encourage a group who has declared war with the U.S., fund them, talk like them, and live like them?

[musturde]

[quote]I say let them build their nuclear programme. Why are we getting involved to try and stop a sovereign nation-state governing itself? If and only if they attack us should we go to war with them. They are not a threat and we shouldn't be treating them as such.
[/quote]
I dont think we would go to war with them but we should do some measures to punish them if they do not cooperate. If they have nuclear weapons, they could make the situation in the area worse.

[quote]The West is shiverring simply at the name of Islamdom could Bin Laden have hoped for anything more at such an early stage in his Jihad? 
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That's not true. We're just concerned because Iran is run by not the most trustworthy of people. If they have weapons, they're obviously planning to use them. Iran already has a very strong anti-Israel policy.

[musturde]

[quote name='Circle_Master' date='Jan 14 2006, 03:53 PM']

The second paragraph (that I quoted) is irrelevant because Iran does not have to go to war with the U.S.  They already support terrorists groups to do their work for them.  They fund the hiz'ballah in Syria/Lebanon, and I'm sure they fund other terrorist groups as well.
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Very true. In fact, Hezbollah was originally all Irani when they came to Lebanon. They're main mission is to supposedly kill jews (technically get back Shebah farms). However, now they're seen as trying to make the political environment in Lebanon more tense. I don't know if Hezbollah really is in Syria much at all. Syria funds them but they're in Lebanon.

[musturde]

[quote name='Myles' date='Jan 14 2006, 03:20 PM']You really think that Israel would actually let them use it? Not only is Israel's army a war machine that is as competant as any other army in the world but their intelligence network is efficient and excellent. As I said before Israel will attack and destroy any threat to it.
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Israel is a war machine, true. However, Iran has Nuclear Weapons. Israel needs help to fight off all the people who are against her. If Israel was so tough, they would have killed the people bombing them from Lebanon already (the current and previous attacks) and they would already have taken out suicide bombers before they attacked. Israel is strong but i don't believe it's invincible.


Allah Bless,
Must