Paphnutius Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:33 PM']shouldn't we not go to their worship/ecumenical stuff, shouldn't they come to ours? [right][snapback]852971[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Perhaps someone could me out here, but I have never understood ecumenicism as attending the other's liturgy or worship service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:33 PM']shouldn't we not go to their worship/ecumenical stuff, shouldn't they come to ours? [right][snapback]852971[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What I am talking about is mutual prayer perhaps at a service together that isn't neccessarily theirs or ours. Not that every Catholic should go to protestant services. However in the interest of encouraging mutual respect and dialogue I don't think it would always be bad to go to one service in order to show a certain amount of acceptance for what is good in what they do. We cannot turn our nose up at there services completely and then say, oh let's be friends and talk about our beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:37 PM']Perhaps someone could me out here, but I have never understood ecumenicism as attending the other's liturgy or worship service. [right][snapback]852975[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Neither did I. Though there may be some value in that along the way in order to gain understanding. Paul was certainly present when the pagans were worshipping many God's in the Aeropogus. His understanding of what they were doing helped him to approach them with the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 isn't that relegious indifferntism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:43 PM']isn't that relegious indifferntism? [right][snapback]852989[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Isn't what indifferentism? Recognizng the truth in what they believe? I thought that is where this would head and that is why I recommended the link to Karl Adam's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 EENS, I promise I will give you much better responses later. My point was that praying together is not the definition of ecumenism. The central effort of ecumenism is dialogue and understanding. Praying together can help keep the focus on God and help promote good will, but it would not be in my short definition of what ecumenism is. eta: Attending each other's worship services would be lower on my list of things to include in the definition than praying together, which probably should be part of any ecumenical meeting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:43 PM']isn't that relegious indifferntism? [right][snapback]852989[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It is only indifferentism or pluralism if you say that everything they are doing is okay. That is not what ecumenicism does. Ecumenicism says that we have differences X, Y, and Z; similiarities A, B, and C so let us focus on and pray on A, B, and C and then discuss X, Y, and Z in a way that will minimize hostility towards one another. You are correct, the Church is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, but that never means that we should approach others as though they are in total, obstinate error. Ecumenicism seeks to approach one another in a loving way. A good document to read on this is Dominus Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 I like how you explained that Paphnutius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:48 PM']It is only indifferentism or pluralism if you say that everything they are doing is okay. That is not what ecumenicism does. Ecumenicism says that we have differences X, Y, and Z; similiarities A, B, and C so let us focus on and pray on A, B, and C and then discuss X, Y, and Z in a way that will minimize hostility towards one another. You are correct, the Church is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, but that never means that we should approach others as though they are in total, obstinate error. Ecumenicism seeks to approach one another in a loving way. A good document to read on this is Dominus Jesus. [right][snapback]852995[/snapback][/right] [/quote] two thumbs up dude. Well said. Edited January 11, 2006 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Jan 11 2006, 02:48 PM']It is only indifferentism or pluralism if you say that everything they are doing is okay. That is not what ecumenicism does. Ecumenicism says that we have differences X, Y, and Z; similiarities A, B, and C so let us focus on and pray on A, B, and C and then discuss X, Y, and Z in a way that will minimize hostility towards one another. You are correct, the Church is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, but that never means that we should approach others as though they are in total, obstinate error. Ecumenicism seeks to approach one another in a loving way. A good document to read on this is Dominus Jesus. [right][snapback]852995[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:50 PM']I like how you explained that Paphnutius [right][snapback]852998[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I would think by now that anyone who knows me at all would know better than to accuse me of indifferentism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:53 PM'] [right][snapback]853001[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I feel like I stole your thunder though polar. You kept saying that you would come back in later. Sorry, I suppose I jumped the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Jan 11 2006, 01:54 PM']I would think by now that anyone who knows me at all would know better than to accuse me of indifferentism. [right][snapback]853002[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i didn't accuse you of indifferntism..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Jan 11 2006, 02:54 PM']I feel like I stole your thunder though polar. You kept saying that you would come back in later. Sorry, I suppose I jumped the gun. [right][snapback]853004[/snapback][/right] [/quote] By all means, jump the gun...The important thing isn't who says it, but that EENS gets his answers. I just wanted to assure him that someone was going to answer him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:59 PM']i didn't accuse you of indifferntism..... [right][snapback]853015[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You were asking the question I believe of me, wasn't what I stated, indifferentism? That's about as close as it can get. If it was I wouldn't have posted it. I have been very careful in my wording so far on this thread so as not to give the impression that I am. But don't worry. I wasn't offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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