Sojourner Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jan 11 2006, 02:39 PM']Would the correct Christian response be to reward those who are lazy with means of a 'fruitful' life? [right][snapback]852977[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't know if I'd call living on welfare "fruitful." At least that's not how I've heard people who've done it describe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jan 11 2006, 02:40 PM']Why do I have a problem with it? Simply, they are not working towards earning money, they are trying to get money the easy way. And the money they spend on lotto, if they're going to waste it, spend it on food for the family, not on frivilous things. [right][snapback]852981[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So you not only want to have control over whether or not they get the money but how they spend it after they get it. Is that what you're saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 Let me rephrase. Would rewarding laziness with money be the correct Christian response. Answer: No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:42 PM']Let me rephrase. Would rewarding laziness with money be the correct Christian response. Answer: No.[/quote] Would coming to Earth to save those that cannot repay you be just? We must admit we are unworthy of Christ and can do nothing to merit His love, yet He gave it freely. Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jan 11 2006, 02:42 PM']Let me rephrase. Would rewarding laziness with money be the correct Christian response. Answer: No. [right][snapback]852986[/snapback][/right] [/quote] OK, so how would you design the system differently? The way [url="http://www.acf.hhs.gov/opa/fact_sheets/tanf_factsheet.html"]TANF[/url] is set up (according to the welfare reform legislation passed during the Clinton administration), people who receive help are supposed to be actively seeking work. They only get benefits for two years. How would you change that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:42 PM']So you not only want to have control over whether or not they get the money but how they spend it after they get it. Is that what you're saying? [right][snapback]852985[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You give a alchololic money because he needs something to eat. You give him money. He spends it on more hard liquor. Are you saying that you have no problem with that? The welfare money is supposed to be spent on essential to living. Anything other than bare essentials, food, basic toiletries, basic nonbrand clothing are bare essentials, not lotto. I'm taking it by your statement you don't care how people spend their welfare money, eh? Alrighty then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:46 PM']OK, so how would you design the system differently? The way [url="http://www.acf.hhs.gov/opa/fact_sheets/tanf_factsheet.html"]TANF[/url] is set up (according to the welfare reform legislation passed during the Clinton administration), people who receive help are supposed to be actively seeking work. They only get benefits for two years. How would you change that? [right][snapback]852993[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It's good in theory, but it doesn't work. People will always find holes in the system. Why do you think there's so many on welfare? They don't want to help themselvse. Also, Christ did give us something that we can never repay, however, we as Christians, especially Catholics will not receive salvation without the good works which we do in faith and with faith. Remember, Christ didn't say, "Here, take this. Do nothing but sit on your bum until I return, " rather we're told in an epistle of St. Paul, "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jan 11 2006, 02:47 PM']You give a alchololic money because he needs something to eat. You give him money. He spends it on more hard liquor. Are you saying that you have no problem with that? The welfare money is supposed to be spent on essential to living. Anything other than bare essentials, food, basic toiletries, basic nonbrand clothing are bare essentials, not lotto. I'm taking it by your statement you don't care how people spend their welfare money, eh? Alrighty then. [right][snapback]852994[/snapback][/right] [/quote] OK, miss "don't put words in my mouth" ... So what kinds of controls would you put in place to ensure people don't spend their money on non-essentials? Keep in mind that food stamps and TANF are not the same thing. There ARE strictures on what food stamps can be spent on. Are you advocating that every person on welfare have a case manager that would dictate how each client could spend money? (if so, I want one of those too. A personal money manager would be very useful to me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jan 11 2006, 02:50 PM']It's good in theory, but it doesn't work. People will always find holes in the system. Why do you think there's so many on welfare? They don't want to help themselvse. Also, Christ did give us something that we can never repay, however, we as Christians, especially Catholics will not receive salvation without the good works which we do in faith and with faith. Remember, Christ didn't say, "Here, take this. Do nothing but sit on your bum until I return, " rather we're told in an epistle of St. Paul, "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." [right][snapback]852997[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What percentage of people on welfare don't deserve to be on it? And how would you change the standards by which eligibility for TANF is determined? Should the whole system be scrapped because some people abuse it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jan 11 2006, 01:28 PM']A society is defined by how it cares for its weakest members [right][snapback]852962[/snapback][/right] [/quote] But should we base that definition on the government or the people themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Jan 11 2006, 01:50 PM'] Also, Christ did give us something that we can never repay, however, we as Christians, especially Catholics will not receive salvation without the good works which we do in faith and with faith. Remember, Christ didn't say, "Here, take this. Do nothing but sit on your bum until I return, " rather we're told in an epistle of St. Paul, "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." [right][snapback]852997[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I would apply that to this conversation as " Boy I sure don't want to take my tax dollars out of the welfare system" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 i would first like to acknowledge the tremendous affection and respect i have for both of you... but... try not to get too personal. please? it makes me sad. question: sojourner, would you admit that there are some on welfare who do not 'deserve' to be on welfare? mrsbroadam, do you think it is practical to assign someone to each person on welfare? do you not think that in the end, careful monitoring would be more costly than leaving the system as is? i am not taking sides, just asking questions. carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jan 11 2006, 12:56 PM']I would apply that to this conversation as " Boy I sure don't want to take my tax dollars out of the welfare system" [right][snapback]853011[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 11 2006, 01:57 PM']mrsbroadam, do you think it is practical to assign someone to each person on welfare? do you not think that in the end, careful monitoring would be more costly than leaving the system as is? [right][snapback]853012[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think this implies that the system uses all the money for good (it does not) and that no individuals are there to help (which I sure hope they are!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 [quote name='Paphnutius' date='Jan 11 2006, 02:00 PM'] [right][snapback]853016[/snapback][/right] [/quote] my face exactly. wha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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