The Legion of Christ

[ruso]

[quote name='christusrexnoster' date='Jan 9 2006, 06:13 PM']For the sake of charity and unity in the Chruch please do not attack other congregations especially when you have no first hand experience and you do not understand the methodology which has been inspired in their founder by the Holy Spirit. Both congregations, the Legionaries and Opus Dei, are working to build the Church. Neither are in  competition since they are both on the same team! Yes the Legion dose have particular norms which, from an outside view seem extreemest but I assure you that everything has a logical explanation. We must not divide the Church by acting as if each movement, diocese, or congregation fights for a particular set of politics. All Catholics are on the same team weather they be Opus Dei, Diocesan Clergy, Legionaries of Christ, or Regnum Christi Members. We are all on the same team, we are called to work together to bear fruit for Christ's kingdom.
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I feel it, but my testimony on the rivalry between legionaries and
Opus Dei is of first hand. It comprise of history, since there were in the average age between Benedictines and Franciscans or as of century XVI between Jesuits and Dominics, Without for that reason it left no of these 4 orders they let serve the church.
The norms of the legion , I do not have anything against them;
whenever they explain before assembling with them.
In the case of this priest when it was in that seminary, He has 15 age,
very hard norms for an adolescent, norms that has hidden to him before assembling.
When a woman assembles with the Dominics of St Cecile for example,
single a letter to the month can write to your family, but who is united already to them it knows it.
Because the legion hides these things?

[Tata126]

I've also experienced the tension between the Legionnaires and Opus Dei, and ruso isn't just making it up. And it's really not quite the same tension as between the Franciscans and Dominicans, which is more of a friendly antagonism instead of real tension. It bothers me... I'm inclined to say most of the tension is on the Legionnaire side against Opus Dei, but I don't know.

[Guest Rick777]

They should be working together, try to show an example of charity, it's kind of a bummer to hear about this.

[ruso]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 10 2006, 11:14 PM']I've also experienced the tension between the Legionnaires and Opus Dei, and ruso isn't just making it up.  And it's really not quite the same tension as between the Franciscans and Dominicans, which is more of a friendly antagonism instead of real tension.  It bothers me... I'm inclined to say most of the tension is on the Legionnaire side against Opus Dei, but I don't know.
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Since I have already said, the tensions between the old orders, it happened centuries ago, today in day as you say well is a friendly antagonism, that in the missions one becomes true friendship among them.

[Vivacristorey]

Oh my goodness, I love the Legionaries of Christ and Regnum Christi! I am an ECYD member myself and I am looking at the precandidacy in Wakefeild, RI!!!

It's so great to see members of the movement here! It's such a big family!

Good luck with your vocation. Don't stress, Christ wont ever let you down.
~*Viva Cristo Rey*~

[Guest TricksterB]

Adveniat Regnum Tuum!

Dear all in Christ,

I would like to tell you about my experience with the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi. It is long, but, humbly, I think it is worth reading.

I joined Regnum Christi in 1999 shortly after my older brother entered the Legion to study for the priesthood. I can honestly say that I didn't know much about the Legion or Regnum Christi at the time, but with prayer (NOT pressure), I knew it was the right thing to do. Since that time, I have always had a Legionary spiritual director, and I have always loved them. Even though I went to a Catholic school, I can attribute the fact that I learned the truth of my faith from the Legionaries. Unfortunately, I know many people who went to my highschool who have since fallen away from the church, and I don't see any reason why the same thing would not have happened to me but that the Legion was present in my life. Through good and bad, they have been their for me, always compassionate, understanding and charitable but never afraid to point me toward the straight and narrow.

During my sophomore year of college at the United States Military Academy, I decided the leave for a year to be a coworker. I wanted to give a year of my life to Christ and only him. Embarking on this journey, I quickly learned that if one gives God an inch, He will ask for a mile. Also, I realized that my plans, which seemed so perfect, are not necessarily God's plans. Within weeks of leaving West Point, I heard, very literally, loud and clear, God calling me to join the Legion. Much to my dismay because I did not want to be a priest, I went to the candidacy program two weeks later. After two months in the candidacy (also known as postulancy as noted by some others in this forum), I received my cassock and entered the novitiate.

There seems to be some concern about this short period of candidacy, but there should not be. It is a discernment program after which no one is ordained and no vows are professed. Also, please be careful with the use of the word "licit". This candidacy, short as it may be, is not [i]illicit[/i] by any means. The Legion of Christ is a fully approved congregation of priests within the Church, so this short period of candidacy has the Church's blessing and seal of approval. After the candidacy, the candidates who are accepted simply enter the novitiate which lasts for a period of two years. The novitiate period is spent acquiring habits of prayer and the spiritual life, general habits of religious life, and more specific habits of [i]Legionary[/i] religious life. It is also worth noting that the two years of novitiate in the Legion is longer than in most other congregations. Therefore, this extended period before the first profession should more than make up for the short candidacy program.

After 18 months in the novitiate, through much prayer and with the help of my superiors and spiritual director, I discerned that God is not calling me to be a priest. There are several reasons that I came to this conclusion, after which received full support from everyone who knew about my situation. Additionally, as soon as I returned home (9 months ago) I was welcomed by the Legionaries who live and work near my home. I was given a new spiritual director, and we speak regularly. I also have a girlfriend and am in college. I am a normal young man. I have not been brainwashed or desocialized, and I have never been pressured into anything.

There was also some concern about the "extreme" norms of the Legion especially regarding those in the novitiate. While I was there, I spoke on the phone with my parents only 5 or 6 times, never went home, and saw them only twice. I wrote them more or less every two weeks either by mail or email. Any mail I received was already open and if necessary, read. However, I accepted these norms as necessary for my formation as did all the other young men I was with (about 50 at any given time). Yes, they were hard, but they were necessary. Those who enter the Legion are well aware of their commitment, and they accept it. After all, it is a vocation, a call from God, and God demands much from everyone in different ways. Having devoted his life to serving God, the Church and his fellow men anywhere in the world, it is important to have the formation to do this. As a man leaves his mother and father to cleave to his wife in marriage, so a priests leaves his mother and father to cleave to his wife the Church in ordination. This is his new family and he is devoted to it, as a man and wife start a family in marriage. It fulfill his vocation, it is necessary to be spiritually detached from family and friends. Of course, you love them, but you are detached. It is important to keep in mind that this is just one charism in the Church and not everyone is called to this charism.

I have also had some experience with Opus Dei, and I love them. The priests of this prelature are holy men who love the Church and Christ. The lay members are also very zealous for their faith. I have also heard only good things from Legionaries about Opus Dei. In fact, I know that the founder of the Legion, Fr Maciel, received much help from St Josemaria Escriva during the foundation. There is no enmity between these two groups. They are simply two separate organizations in the Church striving to build Christ's kingdom on Earth.

If you have read this far, God bless you. I want to make one final remark: I am eterally grateful and indebted to the Legion of Christ and Regnum Christi for the man I am today. Without them, I would be lost. Through them I have established a deep, personal, passionate love for Christ and the Church. I only ask one thing: out of charity, if you do not have personal experience with the Legion or Regnum Christi, please keep what you have heard to yourself to prevent false stereotypes. "Repeat all the good that you hear and only the evil that you see with your own eyes."

Thanks for reading. Feel free to reply. God bless.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

[morostheos]

I was also a coworker in Regnum Christi and have never heard anything but positive things about the relationship between the Legion of Christ and Opus Dei. Actually, I was told that in Chicago, the leaders of Opus Dei there were instructed to do all they could to help the Legion and Regnum Christi get started there, and if has been my experience that they have done so. The missions of The Legion/Regnum Christi and Opus Dei are very similar, so it makes sense that in charity they would help each other out.

[Norseman82]

Well, the Legion has rented the former convent at my parish. I wish they would mingle a bit with us (like say a Mass or two over the weekend) so we could get to know and welcome them.

[Smile_Jesus_loves_you]

ok, to clear something up, we don't pressure, we just let you know we're out there, we're bold, and maybe a bit in your face, i'm sorry about any experiences however there is no rule that you can't be anything else if you are RC, it's not for everyone, we just make it very availble and we are on fire for our cause.

anyway, even being RC i think we should drop the topic, you have your problems with us, keep to yourself, we get enough slander from other folks, i don't like seeing it here. we are who we are, DWIP! (deal with it please) sorry if i'm coming off as rude and/or mean, but i have had enough, if you have a question, present it, please don't go on abotu our faults, we know thats how you feel now just leave us alone.

if you got a prob, take it up with god!

I love Opus Dei folks, they are so holy!! and even though we are different we are working for the same cause.

[peacenluvbaby]

Hey everybody!

I was a pc and had several friends who were in the Legion. One rather disturbing characteristic that I found was that many of their vocations leave the Legion after 5, 6 or even 10 years as a brother. This even occurs, not infrequently after they have made final vows. In speaking to some of those who found it was not their vocation, they mentioned that in the Legion, one was told at all times to "persevere" and thus any discernment process was colored by the idea that leaving was somehow less good and even "not persevering" and thus a failure of the individual instead of a realization and true discernment. Many other orders have clearer discernment processes and also, if you leave they don`t tell you to immediately go get married. They often suggest trying out a few orders. That is what I would suggest. What kind of priest do you want to be? A professor of theology, or a great thinker of the Church - try a more academic order (the Legions academics are sketchy - many of those who "graduated" found that in the "real world" their degrees were insufficient, whereas the Jesuits, Holy Cross, Dominicans and many others send their brothers and priests to fully accredited universities with Academic Freedom, which the Legion restricts - one needs permission even to read Canon Law - and some of the best catholic minds of the last few centuries have been priests. If you want to be more contemplative, maybe the Benedictines, or Trappists - who are hard core - If social justice and teaching is your thing - try a missionary order, like the Sacred Heart, or even Jesuits too, or Carmelites, or many others. LOOK AROUND!!!!!! Any priest who says only look at our order, should be suspect....why would God have such variety and then not want you to "check out the menu" so to speak.

Lastly, in Canon Law,it states

"Can. 630 §1 While safeguarding the discipline of the institute, Superiors are to acknowledge the freedom due to the members concerning the sacrament of penance and the direction of conscience.

§2 Superiors are to take care, in accordance with the institute's own law, that the members have suitable confessors available, to whom they may confess frequently.

§4 Superiors are not to hear the confessions of their subjects unless the members spontaneously request them to do so.

§5 The members are to approach their superiors with trust and be able to open their minds freely and spontaneously to them. Superiors, however, are forbidden in any way to induce the members to make a manifestation of conscience to themselves."

Furthermore in Canon 240 it says "§2 In deciding about the admission of students to orders, or their dismissal from the seminary, the vote of the spiritual director and the confessors may never be sought." I know for a fact that a friend of mine was dismissed from the Legion - specifically by and with the input of his spiritual director who was also his confessor and superior.

Thus the common practice that temporal superiors in the Legion are often both confessors and spiritual guides of the brothers under their temporal control - that is a violation of Canon Law!!!!! I have spoken with LCs and those who were in the Legion and this is common practice.

Other Legionaries were told to leave for psychological problems, after their profession of vows, even final vows, this is also anti-cannonical - 689
"§2 Even though contracted after profession, a physical or psychological infirmity which, in the judgement of experts, renders the member mentioned in §1 unsuited to lead a life in the institute, constitutes a reason for not admitting the member to renewal of profession or to perpetual profession, unless the infirmity was contracted through the negligence of the institute or because of work performed in the institute.

§3 A religious who becomes insane during the period of temporary vows cannot be dismissed from the institute, even though unable to make a new profession. "

Peace everyone! Knowledge is power, as they say, and just like you want to know about the chick or guy you might wanna marry, I think you should be just as careful where you want to test out your vocation to the priesthood.

Luv ya!

PS check out the cannon law website : [url="http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_INDEX.HTM"]http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_INDEX.HTM[/url]

Edited January 14, 2006 by peacenluvbaby

[Guest TricksterB]

For the sake of charity, I ask that we please discontinue this forum. It appears to me that it is doing nothing more than cause division in this beautiful Church that Christ has built for us.

Count on my prayers for the unity of all Christians. God bless you all.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='peacenluvbaby' date='Jan 14 2006, 05:52 AM']Hey everybody! 

I was a pc and had several friends who were in the Legion.  One rather disturbing characteristic that I found was that many of their vocations leave the Legion after 5, 6 or even 10 years as a brother.  This even occurs, not infrequently after they have made final vows.  In speaking to some of those who found it was not their vocation, they mentioned that in the Legion, one was told at all times to "persevere" and thus any discernment process was colored by the idea that leaving was somehow less good and even "not persevering" and thus a failure of the individual instead of a realization and true discernment.  Many other orders have clearer discernment processes and also, if you leave they don`t tell you to immediately go get married.  They often suggest trying out a few orders.  That is what I would suggest.  What kind of priest do you want to be?  A professor of theology, or a great thinker of the Church - try a more academic order (the Legions academics are sketchy - many of those who "graduated" found that in the "real world" their degrees were insufficient, whereas the Jesuits, Holy Cross, Dominicans and many others send their brothers and priests to fully accredited universities with Academic Freedom, which the Legion restricts - one needs permission even to read Canon Law - and some of the best catholic minds of the last few centuries have been priests.  If you want to be more contemplative, maybe the Benedictines, or Trappists - who are hard core    - If social justice and teaching is your thing - try a missionary order, like the Sacred Heart, or even Jesuits too, or Carmelites, or many others.  LOOK AROUND!!!!!!  Any priest who says only look at our order, should be suspect....why would God have such variety and then not want you to "check out the menu" so to speak.

Lastly, in Canon Law,it states

"Can. 630 §1 While safeguarding the discipline of the institute, Superiors are to acknowledge the freedom due to the members concerning the sacrament of penance and the direction of conscience.

§2 Superiors are to take care, in accordance with the institute's own law, that the members have suitable confessors available, to whom they may confess frequently.

§4 Superiors are not to hear the confessions of their subjects unless the members spontaneously request them to do so.

§5 The members are to approach their superiors with trust and be able to open their minds freely and spontaneously to them. Superiors, however, are forbidden in any way to induce the members to make a manifestation of conscience to themselves."

Furthermore in Canon 240 it says "§2 In deciding about the admission of students to orders, or their dismissal from the seminary, the vote of the spiritual director and the confessors may never be sought."  I know for a fact that a friend of mine was dismissed from the Legion - specifically by and with the input of his spiritual director who was also his confessor and superior. 

Thus the common practice that temporal superiors in the Legion are often both confessors and spiritual guides of the brothers under their temporal control - that is a violation of Canon Law!!!!!  I have spoken with LCs and those who were in the Legion and this is common practice.

Other Legionaries were told to leave for psychological problems, after their profession of vows, even final vows, this is also anti-cannonical - 689
"§2 Even though contracted after profession, a physical or psychological infirmity which, in the judgement of experts, renders the member mentioned in §1 unsuited to lead a life in the institute, constitutes a reason for not admitting the member to renewal of profession or to perpetual profession, unless the infirmity was contracted through the negligence of the institute or because of work performed in the institute.

§3 A religious who becomes insane during the period of temporary vows cannot be dismissed from the institute, even though unable to make a new profession. "

Peace everyone!  Knowledge is power, as they say, and just like you want to know about the chick or guy you might wanna marry, I think you should be just as careful where you want to test out your vocation to the priesthood.

Luv ya!

PS check out the cannon law website : [url="http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_INDEX.HTM"]http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_INDEX.HTM[/url]
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With all respect, this has not been my experience. I am currently discerning the priesthood, and am a member of Regnum Christi I have had a Legionaire spiritual director for years. When I told him that I was discerning, he did not pressure me to join the Legion and, when I told him that I did not think the Legion's charism is my charism, he was extremely helpful in working with me to find out what religious order [i]is[/i] right for me. That support has never wavered.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff

[Marieteresa]

I think this tread is pretty helpful

[ironman]

I was reverted to the faith, due to Regnum Christi retreats, among other things. I've been on about 10 young men's Regnum Christi retreats, and have not had one single problem. The Priest's are awesome and the spiritual direction is awesome. I do know Cardinal Mahoney, doesn't like them, but that makes me like them even more. I'm not a member of the Legion or Regnum Christi, and they have never "brainwashed" or forced me into anything......
I think they are one of they most effective orders out there, and sure some people may have issues with them, great. People have issues with everything, all I can report on is they have helped change my life and I am very grateful for that.

[Vivacristorey]

peacenluvbaby:
We meet again! I find it pretty ironic after your post on the Legionaries of Christ that you say you are just "reporting the facts" and that you are not biased against the movement. You say you are not accusing when, here we are, having another conversation, and I dont think even you could doubt that your remarks were accusatory. However, let's not dwell on it.

It seems to me that you are one of the only people on this thread who have a problem with the legionaries. It seems to me that many more people have been helped extremely in their faith under Legionary direction, including myself.

Why dont you try going to a Regnum Christi event again and see if maybe it was those "teen hormones" that caused you to make the rash decision to devote your phatmass time to bashing the Legionaries, eh?