liberalism as it is in this country

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Jan 10 2006, 07:58 AM']So you're saying that Bush being pro choice is more sinful than killing terrorists?
I would agree with that.
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... and you are saying Bush is "pro-choice" ?
other than the war - how and why?

[Jaime]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Jan 14 2006, 02:06 AM']... and you are saying Bush is "pro-choice" ?   
other than the war - how and why?
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Oh absolulutely I'm saying Bush is pro choice. He's stated it over and over again.


That's one of the main reasons I didn't vote for him

Edited January 14, 2006 by jaime

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Jan 7 2006, 08:57 AM'][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/eremite_85/I20Spent20T-Shirt.jpg[/img]
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omgosh! I'm cracking up.

[curtins]

When did bush say that he's pro choice?

I've herd him many a times say we need to foster a culture of life in this country

[Jaime]

He's on record for allowing abortions in cases of rape or incest.

[qfnol31]

That's not so much pro-choice...it's not very much pro-life, but it's not the same as pro-choice.

I say that because I find it pretty misleading to just label him pro-choice. It makes him sound like he's in the same category as Kerry, and that's definitely not the case.

Also, are you guys sure it's not a ruse so as not to be quite so offensive to abortion-supporters?

[qfnol31]

[quote name='zwergel88' date='Jan 7 2006, 03:15 PM']Liberalism in a philosophical sense might be problematic but liberalism in a democratic political kind of sense is cool.
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Do you agree that "private property equals a public trust," to quote a very famous president?

[Cam42]

[quote name='curtins' date='Jan 14 2006, 09:40 PM']When did bush say that he's pro choice?

I've herd him many a times say we need to foster a culture of life in this country
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But Bush does support abortion......

[quote]Q: Would you try to overturn the FDA’s approval last week of the abortion pill RU-486?
BUSH: I don’t think a president can do that. I was disappointed in the ruling because I’m worried that that pill will cause more people to have abortions. As to the drug itself, I hope the FDA took its time to make sure that American women will be safe who use this drug.

GORE: Well, the FDA took 12 years. And I do support that decision. They determined it was medically safe for the women who use that drug.[/quote]

(source: Presidential debate, Boston MA Oct 3, 2000)

[quote][b]McCAIN [to Bush]: Do you believe in the exemption, in the case of abortion, for rape, incest, and life of the mother?
BUSH: [u]Yeah, I do.[/u][/b]
McCain: [But you] support the pro-life plank [in the Republican Party platform]?
BUSH: I do.
McCAIN: So, in other words, your position is that you believe there’s an exemption for rape, incest and the life of the mother, but you want the platform that you’re supposed to be leading to have no exemption. Help me out there, will you?
BUSH: I will. The platform doesn’t talk about what specifically should be in the constitutional amendment. The platform speaks about a constitutional amendment. It doesn’t refer to how that constitutional amendment ought to be defined.
McCAIN: If you read the platform, it has no exceptions.
BUSH: John, I think we need to keep the platform the way it is. This is a pro-life party.
McCAIN: Then you are contradicting your platform.[/quote]

(source: GOP Debate on the Larry King Show Feb 15, 2000)

[quote]Bush has a solidly anti-abortion record in Texas, pushing aggressively for restrictions on the practice and for a more streamlined adoption process. But he has also been careful to send out subtle signals, including saying that e will not use abortion as a litmus test for selecting Supreme Court justices, and considering Tom Ridge, the pro-choice governor of Pennsylvania, as his running mate. (He chose Johnsonville brat Cheney, solidly anti, in the end). Bush:
1.  [b]opposes abortion except in cases of rape or incest, or to save the life of the mother[/b]
2.  [b]supports laws under which parents are notified if minors undergo abortions[/b]
3.  supports a ban on “partial-birth” (late-term) abortions
4.  opposes the use of taxpayer money to pay for abortions
5.  wants to make adoption easier, and to promote abstinence programs in schools
6.  [b][u]will not[/u] try to change the constitution to outlaw abortion.[/b][/quote]

(source: The Economist, “Issues 2000” special Sep 30, 2000)

NOT pro-life. No way, no how.

[Cam42]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Jan 15 2006, 12:05 AM']He's on record for allowing abortions in cases of rape or incest.
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He sure is......

[qfnol31]

[quote]2.  supports laws under which parents are notified if minors undergo abortions
6.  will not try to change the constitution to outlaw abortion.[/quote]

If a person properly understands the Constitution, #6 is void anyways.

#2, which you bolded, is very successful in lowering abortion rates in states.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jan 14 2006, 11:42 PM']If a person properly understands the Constitution, #6 is void anyways.

#2, which you bolded, is very successful in lowering abortion rates in states.
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[quote name='http://www.issues2000.org/George_W__Bush_Abortion.htm']Surely we as a party can agree, that by banning partial-birth, and by having mothers and dads notified, and by not spending taxpayers’ money on abortions that we can reduce abortions in America.
Source: Exploratory Committee Announcement, on NBC’s “Hardball” Mar 8, 1999 [/quote]

[qfnol31]

[quote name='ibid']Supreme Court is wrong: leave abortion to the states
Bush, confronted once more by an issue that threatens his courtship of moderate voters, said he was disappointed by the court’s 5-4 vote striking down a Nebraska law banning so-called “partial-birth” abortions. States should have the right to enact reasonable laws and restrictions particularly to end the inhumane practice of ending a life that otherwise could live, Bush said. He pledged to fight for a partial-birth abortion ban that would meet constitutional muster. Bush has said he supports a constitutional amendment outlawing abortion except in cases of rape or incest or to protect the life of a mother. But Bush has also said he supports the Republican Party platform, which contains an anti-abortion plank that makes no such exceptions.
Source: Sandra Sobieraj, AP article in Washington Post Jun 28, 2000 [/quote]

[zealousrap]

this is only a small part of what President Bush said to the people at the March for Life in 2004.

"you believe as I do, that every person, however frail or vulnerable, is a blessing, each of us has a special dignity, a place and purpose in this world, and in the Declaration of Independance our founders stated this self evident truth, the right to life does not come from Government, it comes from the creator of life"


How in the world is that not pro-life?

[Jaime]

[quote]Bush opposes abortion except in cases of rape, incest or to save the mother’s life. [/quote]

[url="http://www.issues2000.org/2004/George_W__Bush_Abortion.htm"]http://www.issues2000.org/2004/George_W__Bush_Abortion.htm[/url]

He's on record being prochoice

[Cam42]

Context Zach, zealourap, curtins, et. al., context. What is the VERY FIRST thing that comes out of the mouth of President Bush?

[quote]Yeah, I do.[/quote]

That is in response to this question:
[quote]Do you believe in the exemption, in the case of abortion, for rape, incest, and life of the mother?[/quote]

Pro-choice. By definition. Pro-choice. If he were pro-life, he would have answered that question in the negative. As it is, GEORGE W. BUSH is on record for being pro-choice. Everything else aside, the President believes that he cannot interfere in the issue. He is quoted as saying as much twice.

That can be interpreted as being "While I personally oppose abortion, the President should not interfere in the law of the land."

He even says as much:
[quote]I don’t think a president can do that.[/quote]

This is in response to this question:
[quote]Would you try to overturn the FDA’s approval last week of the abortion pill RU-486?[/quote]

[quote][George W. Bush] will not try to change the constitution to outlaw abortion.[/quote]

All facts. Simple and straightforward. All prove George W. Bush to be pro-choice.

By defintion pro-choice:
[quote]Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.[/quote]
(The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition: Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.)

[quote]advocating a woman's right to control her own body (especially her right to an induced abortion)[/quote]
(WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University)

What is the antonym? It is pro-life:
[quote]Advocating full legal protection of human embryos or fetuses, especially by opposing legalized abortion.[/quote]
(The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition: Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.)

[quote]advocating full legal protection of embryos and fetuses (especially opposing the legalization of induced abortions)[/quote]
(WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University)

Bush does not fit the criteria for pro-life. He stumbles on the rape and incest portion. You either are or you ARE NOT pro-life. There are not varying degrees of pro-life. It is an all or nothing proposition.

We cannot justify Bush's position on life. We MUST call for him to become pro-life. Lest you think that I simply flapping about this, think again. I have written to my senators (both from Michigan and Iowa {where I grew up}) and I have written to my president, asking for him to change his view and become pro-life. Sen. Charles Grassley (R.-IA) sent me back a letter agreeing with my position.