1 Corinthians 9:19-22

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

nothing to do with ecumenicism, more with conversion. the catholic church condemned ecumencism until the second vatican council.

[Guest Rick777]

Nothing to do with Ecumenism?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

nothing in the bible has to do with ecumenicism.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Jan 10 2006, 04:33 PM']I heard the author speak once. Nice guy.
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[Guest Rick777]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 10 2006, 02:41 PM']nothing to do with ecumenicism, more with conversion. the catholic church condemned ecumencism until the second vatican council.
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But now it's not condemned.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 10 2006, 03:52 PM']nothing in the bible has to do with ecumenicism.
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Sam, I have quite the traditionalist streak in me, but this is simply false. You want ecumenism in the Bible? Look at Christ with the woman at the well. The Samaratins and the Jews in Jerusalem were as similar to "denomenations" as you get, and what did Christ do? He told her not to focus on the division between the two, but to look forward to the time when they would be one.

You are right to condemn false ecumenism, but people will never listen to you if you forsake facts and truth in the name of exaggerating a point.

[Guest Rick777]

Good one, Jeff. Why couldn't I think of that?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]    A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, "Give me a drink."
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    His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.
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    5 The Samaritan woman said to him, "How can you, a Jew, ask me, a Samaritan woman, for a drink?" (For Jews use nothing in common with Samaritans.)
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    6 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God and who is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."
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    (The woman) said to him, "Sir, 7 you do not even have a bucket and the cistern is deep; where then can you get this living water?
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    Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this cistern and drank from it himself with his children and his flocks?"
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    Jesus answered and said to her, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again;
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    but whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
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    The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water, so that I may not be thirsty or have to keep coming here to draw water."
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    Jesus said to her, "Go call your husband and come back."
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    The woman answered and said to him, "I do not have a husband." Jesus answered her, "You are right in saying, 'I do not have a husband.'
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    For you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true."
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    The woman said to him, "Sir, I can see that you are a prophet.
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    Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain; 8 but you people say that the place to worship is in Jerusalem."
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    Jesus said to her, "Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
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    You people worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand, because salvation is from the Jews.
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    But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and truth; 9 and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him.
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    God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth."
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    10 The woman said to him, "I know that the Messiah is coming, the one called the Anointed; when he comes, he will tell us everything."
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    Jesus said to her, "I am he, 11 the one who is speaking with you."[/quote]


where is the ecumenicism? all i see is conversion.

[Guest JeffCR07]

thanks, though I'm not trying to score points here. My objective isn't to prove Sam wrong, its to help him in making a good argument. If we want to bring people back into a deeper appreciation for tradition (and I most certainly do), then the best way to do that is to make sure that we aren't making any radical or questionable statements.

A restrained, confident, and precise critic of current ecumenical practices is going to make a lot more of an impact than someone who makes flamboyent and incorrect statements.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

did u see my above post?

God Bless,

Sam

[Guest Rick777]

what are you trying to say?! j/k lol.

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]where is the ecumenicism? all i see is conversion.[/quote]

Perhaps you have a more modern understanding of "ecumenism" than I do, but ecumenism is a dialogue between religious groups aimed at realizing the truth. Conversion occurs on a particular level.

Will ecumenism lead to conversion when one of the parties involved is the Church? Yes. Is ecumenism unnecessary, because all we need is conversion? No.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

isn't TRUE ecumenicism non-Catholics praticipating in Catholic liturgies, and prayers without down playing catholic dogma?

[Guest JeffCR07]

no, true ecumenism is two religious groups coming to the table to talk out their differences in a respectful manner with the aim of coming to the truth.

Since the Church [i]is[/i] the Truth, true ecumenism will lead others to the Church, but those instances of personal conversion are posterior to true ecumenism itself

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

wouldn't that be putting a man made relegion on par with the Church?