Teatime with Freud

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 09:51 PM']something struck me after the third or fourth time of reading that... high rates of single motherhood? how is that a cause of a metro-sexual man? im way confused.
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No father around, a general lack of good male role models, etc. Boys raised by a single mother are statistically more likely to suffer from all sorts of things, many of which pertain to sexuality.

[Tata126]

Well, a boy raised by a single mother usually doesn't have an immediate example of fatherhood and what it means to grow up to be a man. Not to say that no children raised by single mothers have father-figures, or that all boys raised by single mothers grow up to be effeminate, but it's just a lot more common for the single main influence in such a child's life to be female, which would hinder the child from understanding what it means to be a man.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Jan 5 2006, 10:55 PM']No father around, a general lack of good male role models, etc. Boys raised by a single mother are statistically more like to suffer from all sorts of things, many of which pertain to sexuality.
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right. duh. sorry. a little slow if we havent figured that out already. understand now.

[Tata126]

Yes, what Laudate_Dominum said.

[franciscanheart]

let me add that i do not believe the problem is all the man's in this situation. obviously if women are becoming more like men, there is a problem with women these days too. i would even venture to say that it is more the woman's fault that these things are happening than it is the man's. growing up people tell young girls that they can do anything the boys can do and there isnt a difference in the world between them except in physicality. women are the ones who made the push to be more like men and to take on more of their responsibilities. i would even go as far as saying that women leave most of the lasting impressions of what young girls should grow up to be. if the mother was strong and outgoing and believed that a woman had just as much right, or just as much obligation, to do what the man did, then i believe her children, most especially her daughters, would grow up the same way. the raising of young girls is out of whack too. women need to be taught from a young age what men are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be and do in relation to the man. there need to be women in the world who understand their roles and who might help these confused men find their place again. men only have as much control as they establish and if they choose not to establish it, the woman should give it to him. maybe given the responsibility the man will step up and take over.

[shortnun]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 10:56 PM']Well, a boy raised by a single mother usually doesn't have an immediate example of fatherhood and what it means to grow up to be a man.  Not to say that no children raised by single mothers have father-figures,  or that all boys raised by single mothers grow up to be effeminate, but it's just a lot more common for the single main influence in such a child's life to be female, which would hinder the child from understanding what it means to be a man.
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Personally, I'm more concerned with how parents today (be it a single mother, single father, grandparent, two parent household, older sibling, gay couple) instills God-fearing, faith-filled values and beliefs in that child and how they aid their him/her in forming a moral conscience.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:06 PM']Personally, I'm more concerned with how parents today (be it a single mother, single father, grandparent, two parent household, older sibling, gay couple) instills God-fearing, faith-filled  values and beliefs in that child and how they aid their him/her in forming a moral conscience.
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I'd just like to give props to you for sporting your Catechesis of the Good Shepherd stuff in your sig...definitely important to this.

[shortnun]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:01 PM']growing up people tell young girls that they can do anything the boys can do and there isnt a difference in the world between them except in physicality. women are the ones who made the push to be more like men and to take on more of their responsibilities. i would even go as far as saying that women leave most of the lasting impressions of what young girls should grow up to be. [b]if the mother was strong and outgoing and believed that a woman had just as much right, or just as much obligation, to do what the man did, then i believe her children, most especially her daughters, would grow up the same way. [/b]
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[Emphasis mine.] Hughey, I respectfully disagree. Every day I thank God that my parents--a mother and a father--instilled in me the beliefs that they did. They gave me the skills and confidence necessary to go out into the world and develop my own beliefs in light of personal experience and in light of my Christian faith. I am so thankful that my mother (and father) held so much faith in me from such a young age. I was told that I could do whatever I wanted to do... that the world was my oyster. They instilled in me respect, responsibility, and a desire to accomplish my wildest dreams. And it it with their continued support and prayers that I am were I am today.

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:01 PM']there need to be women in the world who understand their roles and who might help these confused men find their place again. men only have as much control as they establish and if they choose not to establish it, the woman should give it to him. maybe given the responsibility the man will step up and take over.
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I see a greater need in the world for men and women who see each other and images of God before their very own eyes. By our Christian baptism, we are given the authority and responsibility to bring forth the Kingdom of God. Pardon me, but I believe that respect and appreciation are of more importance in that mission than carefully outlining social boundaries and roles that men and women are to uphold.

[shortnun]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:07 PM']I'd just like to give props to you for sporting your Catechesis of the Good Shepherd stuff in your sig...definitely important to this.
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How so? Are you being serious or sarcastic?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:18 PM']How so? Are you being serious or sarcastic?
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Quite serious. I'm a catechetics major at Franciscan...I've sat in on CGS...it's absolutely amazing!

[Tata126]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 10:01 PM']let me add that i do not believe the problem is all the man's in this situation. obviously if women are becoming more like men, there is a problem with women these days too. i would even venture to say that it is more the woman's fault that these things are happening than it is the man's. growing up people tell young girls that they can do anything the boys can do and there isnt a difference in the world between them except in physicality. women are the ones who made the push to be more like men and to take on more of their responsibilities. i would even go as far as saying that women leave most of the lasting impressions of what young girls should grow up to be. if the mother was strong and outgoing and believed that a woman had just as much right, or just as much obligation, to do what the man did, then i believe her children, most especially her daughters, would grow up the same way. the raising of young girls is out of whack too. women need to be taught from a young age what men are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be and do in relation to the man. there need to be women in the world who understand their roles and who might help these confused men find their place again. men only have as much control as they establish and if they choose not to establish it, the woman should give it to him. maybe given the responsibility the man will step up and take over.
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EXACTLY.

[quote name='shortnun' date='Jan 5 2006, 10:06 PM']Personally, I'm more concerned with how parents today (be it a single mother, single father, grandparent, two parent household, older sibling, gay couple) instills God-fearing, faith-filled  values and beliefs in that child and how they aid their him/her in forming a moral conscience.
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I agree, but part of the moral conscience is an understanding of what it means to be who you are, and that includes your gender. I don't think we're denying that people should be taught to love God...we're just saying that in addition to everything else that's important in raising children, children should be taught what it means to be the gender that they are. I mean, isn't that what moral formation is all about, being taught what it means to be who you are? If you consider morality to be something of a user's guide to the human person, telling you what is and isn't in conformity with the way we are created... and catechesis and moral values and societal roles are all essential to an understanding of who we are as God created us, and what our relationship to God and others is.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:16 PM'][Emphasis mine.] Hughey, I respectfully disagree. Every day I thank God that my parents--a mother and a father--instilled in me the beliefs that they did. They gave me the skills and confidence necessary to go out into the world and develop my own beliefs in light of personal experience and in light of my Christian faith. I am so thankful that my mother (and father) held so much faith in me from such a young age. I was told that I could do whatever I wanted to do... that the world was my oyster. They instilled in me respect, responsibility, and a desire to accomplish my wildest dreams. And it it with their continued support and prayers that I am were I am today.

I see a greater need in the world for men and women who see each other and images of God before their very own eyes. By our Christian baptism, we are given the authority and responsibility to bring forth the Kingdom of God. Pardon me, but I believe that respect and appreciation are of more importance in that mission than carefully outlining social boundaries and roles that men and women are to uphold.
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I thank God for knowing that I am not worthless. I was blessed to have many people in my life who told me I could do absolutely anything I wanted to do and that no one (and no thing) could stop me if I really worked for it. I gained whatever confidence in myself through them and their confidence in me. [i]However[/i], I have come to recognize that while I am of value and that I am worthy of many things, I do not necessarily need to conquer the world in order to have made a life for myself. I do not have to do everything that I could possibly do - including things that I do not even believe to be a woman's job - in order to have been successful in this lifetime. To me, to be successful is to raise a beautiful, holy, loving family of saints. To me, to be successful is to serve my husband and my children and my God in such a way that I can stand at the gates of Heaven and know I had done something to advance His plan on earth and to help others get to where I hope to stand. Never once did I say that I believed respect and appreciation to be of little consequence. I do believe that a greater emphasis should be put on that. However, I also believe that by putting more emphasis on the roles of the man and the woman that respect, and even more so, appreciation would come more easily to everyone. When women try to take over things that should be left for a man, it becomes easier to lose respect for what he does. In the same respect, when a man takes on a woman's responsibilities, it then would seem more difficult for him to respect what she does. When we return to the natural way of life, then we will see God's plan for our sex and then we will more fully appreciate the opposite. I am not calling for a definite outline of the duties of a man and a woman, nor am I saying that respect and appreciation for one another should be thrown to the wayside. I am saying, rather, that when natural roles are restored, things will fall more easily into place. I am saying, rather, that when natural roles are restored, many of these problems will dissipate. I am planted firm in my belief that because of the extreme pushes for women to be men that we have created unnecessary problems and that a lack of appreciation and respect for each sex has been established.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:22 PM']I agree, but part of the moral conscience is an understanding of what it means to be who you are, and that includes your gender.  I don't think we're denying that people should be taught to love God...we're just saying that in addition to everything else that's important in raising children, children should be taught what it means to be the gender that they are.  I mean, isn't that what moral formation is all about, being taught what it means to be who you are?  If you consider morality to be something of a user's guide to the human person, telling you what is and isn't in conformity with the way we are created... and catechesis and moral values and societal roles are all essential to an understanding of who we are as God created us, and what our relationship to God and others is.
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[b]precisely.[/b]

[Guest Rick777]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 09:28 PM']I thank God for knowing that I am not worthless. I was blessed to have many people in my life who told me I could do absolutely anything I wanted to do and that no one (and no thing) could stop me if I really worked for it. I gained whatever confidence in myself through them and their confidence in me. [i]However[/i], I have come to recognize that while I am of value and that I am worthy of many things, I do not necessarily need to conquer the world in order to have made a life for myself. I do not have to do everything that I could possibly do - including things that I do not even believe to be a woman's job - in order to have been successful in this lifetime. To me, to be successful is to raise a beautiful, holy, loving family of saints. To me, to be successful is to serve my husband and my children and my God in such a way that I can stand at the gates of Heaven and know I had done something to advance His plan on earth and to help others get to where I hope to stand. Never once did I say that I believed respect and appreciation to be of little consequence. I do believe that a greater emphasis should be put on that. However, I also believe that by putting more emphasis on the roles of the man and the woman that respect, and even more so, appreciation would come more easily to everyone. When women try to take over things that should be left for a man, it becomes easier to lose respect for what he does. In the same respect, when a man takes on a woman's responsibilities, it then would seem more difficult for him to respect what she does. When we return to the natural way of life, then we will see God's plan for our sex and then we will more fully appreciate the opposite. I am not calling for a definite outline of the duties of a man and a woman, nor am I saying that respect and appreciation for one another should be thrown to the wayside. I am saying, rather, that when natural roles are restored, things will fall more easily into place. I am saying, rather, that when natural roles are restored, many of these problems will dissipate. I am planted firm in my belief that because of the extreme pushes for women to be men that we have created unnecessary problems and that a lack of appreciation and respect for each sex has been established.
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Wow. That was good.

[shortnun]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 11:22 PM']I agree, but part of the moral conscience is an understanding of what it means to be who you are, and that includes your gender.  I don't think we're denying that people should be taught to love God...we're just saying that in addition to everything else that's important in raising children, children should be taught what it means to be the gender that they are.  I mean, isn't that what moral formation is all about, being taught what it means to be who you are?  If you consider morality to be something of a user's guide to the human person, telling you what is and isn't in conformity with the way we are created... and catechesis and moral values and societal roles are all essential to an understanding of who we are as God created us, and what our relationship to God and others is.
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Sex is a biological determinate (provided there are no genetic abnormalities). Gender is a social construct. Neither gender, nor sex, are the sole determinates for who a person is or is not. That I hope we can agree on. But I do agree with you, Tata, that our moral conscience (when it is growing and developing well) is inherently tied to our catechetics and to our society. Our relationship with God and others is based partialy, though not entirely, on societal norms. But we must also reconcile and seek value from the world we live in after reflecting on Christian tradition.