Teatime with Freud

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 02:29 PM']if only there were a way to change such systems of behavior. it is emotionally and often physically draining on the person who puts themself through that kind of relationship. but still the torment is comforting which is twisted but true.
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I would say prayer, penance, the Sacramental life, good spiritual reading and spiritual direction.. all that good stuff that I wish I did more of.

I've seen very disfunctional people transform their lives by becoming more and more intense in their spiritual life.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:27 PM']Hmmm...I don't know.  A lot of women choose bad boys and do "have them"...and get into abusive relationships.  Likewise, many guys see that and think that that's what women look for, which perpetuates the whole bad boy thing.

I figured that the boys you "could't have" were the ones who were too good.

I'm certain that if I didn't have the initial distance provided by the internet, I never would've gone for Jen...I would have considered her way out of my league if we'd have met at FUS.  I figured that's what was meant by guys you just couldn't have.
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i suppose they are that in one sense. but it is a silly way of thinking. in some materialistic and judgemental parts of society i am sure it would be proven true and in some cases it may not be proper for certain people to "have" each other. but social barriers have been crossed so many times not that even those engagements have lost a lot of shock value.

guys you cant have though could also be in an emotional sense. it could be in a "he's married and has kids" sense. it could be in the sense that you absolutely know that you could never work out due to outside or perhaps personal factors and still you chase it to fill a void. sometimes that void is destructive. but again, despite the destructiveness and the emotional and physical stress it causes, the behavior and the consequences are soothing for some people.

[Tata126]

I think the bad boy phenomenon is caused more than anything by girls wanting strong men, and not seeing enough of them in society. We naturally want men who can protect us, but society tells men that they're supposed to be "sensitive," which immediately morphs into "weak," and far too many men listen. Then when girls see a man whose general attitude is "to hell with everybody," and who seems likely to take on and beat any comer in a fight, they're inclined to be attracted to him at least initially, because he's manifestly strong.

So gentlemen, being sensitive is good, but don't let it get in the way of your identity as knights and warriors.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 04:55 PM']I think the bad boy phenomenon is caused more than anything by girls wanting strong men, and not seeing enough of them in society.  We naturally want men who can protect us, but society tells men that they're supposed to be "sensitive," which immediately morphs into "weak," and far too many men listen.  Then when girls see a man whose general attitude is "to hell with everybody," and who seems likely to take on and beat any comer in a fight, they're inclined to be attracted to him at least initially, because he's manifestly strong.

So gentlemen, being sensitive is good, but don't let it get in the way of your identity as knights and warriors.
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While that may have something to do with it, I think it's more based on bad examples of manhood...here's why: I know plenty of strong men who don't have girlfriends, but have plenty of girl friends.

[philothea]

[rkwright]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:24 PM']
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are those the scones that were promised in this thread?!

[homeschoolmom]

Sometimes a biscotti's just a biscotti...

[shortnun]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:04 PM']here's a question... maybe off topic? yeah maybe a little but i'll ask anyway. is it generally so that a girl befriends people whom she could never see herself with? i am not saying that it would be odd that one should befriend even those whom she could not see herself marrying - it just seems odd that i tend to socialize with people whom i could never see marrying and generally find them to be better comany. that was a really horrible off topic question/remark.
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I define "people I'm phsyically/sexually/romantically attracted to" in a different category than those friends who I "share things in common with." So when I think of the men in my life--some of whom I could "see myself with" and some of whom I don't--I socialize with them because we have something(s) in common. Some of them when to school with me, some I've worked with, others are friends of friends, etc. It's not off topic, at all. I think it's very relavant.

[i][Aside for hughey.... have you posted any of this on the marriage thread in the Vocations forum? I don't always read it, so I'm not as up to date as I could be. But I think it's material for a great discussion.][/i]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:16 PM']heres something not a lot of people know: if i had to choose one family from any movie or tv show that i would most like to be a part of (in the mother/wife role), it would be lynette and her family on desperate housewives. maybe thats a bad sign though.
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If I'm not being intrusive, may I ask for you to futher explain yourself? My first reaction was not "Ooooh, that's bad!" Yes yes, I do watch the show... moving right along, I can see Lynette as having a loving, supportive husband with wonderful (though at times, rowdy) children. Nothin' wrong with dat.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 03:55 PM']I think the bad boy phenomenon is caused more than anything by girls wanting strong men, and not seeing enough of them in society.  We naturally want men who can protect us, but society tells men that they're supposed to be "sensitive," which immediately morphs into "weak," and far too many men listen.  Then when girls see a man whose general attitude is "to hell with everybody," and who seems likely to take on and beat any comer in a fight, they're inclined to be attracted to him at least initially, because he's manifestly strong.

So gentlemen, being sensitive is good, but don't let it get in the way of your identity as knights and warriors.
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Very true, I think.

Today, men tend to be either brutes or wimps. We need to stive for the ideal of the knight or the gentlemen, in which one's masculinity is not denied, but channeled into a higher purpose.

Women like "bad boys" mainly because they like testosterone.

Some women, however, seem to have the opposite problem, and go after over-sensitive weaklings whom they figure they can dominate and manipulate.

Dames - I'll never figure 'em out!

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jan 5 2006, 07:52 PM']Very true, I think.

Today, men tend to be either brutes or wimps.  We need to stive for the ideal of the knight or the gentlemen, in which one's masculinity is not denied, but channeled into a higher purpose.

Women like "bad boys" mainly because they like testosterone.

Some women, however, seem to have the opposite problem, and go after over-sensitive weaklings whom they figure they can dominate and manipulate.

Dames - I'll never figure 'em out!
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There's nothing wrong at all with a manly man. Normally when I think of a "bad boy", I'm thinking of a bad boy in the sense of an immature jerk.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Jan 5 2006, 08:06 PM']There's nothing wrong at all with a manly man. Normally when I think of a "bad boy", I'm thinking of a bad boy in the sense of an immature jerk.
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That's what I meant.

Immature or stupid women often (falsely) equate being an immature jerk with masculinity.

A gentlemen is a manly man, and does not behave like an immature jerk, but treats women with courtesy and respect.

The gentlemen is likewise distinguished from the "sensitive guy" who lacks strong masculinity and acts weak or effeminate.
(This I think is also true of many "bad boy" jerks. They are insecure about their own manhood, and thus try to "prove" or assert their masculinity by being jerks.)

[Tata126]

And of course this is all because of the movement to make women independent of men, and also somehow the same as men...now, men don't have a societal place distinct from women because women don't have a societal place distinct from men, and the result is the metrosexual or overly-sensitive man who doesn't know what it means to be a man. Also, I'd guess, the high rates of single motherhood are an important cause.

[franciscanheart]

i dont even try to evaluate the cause... mostly my head does this number when i do:

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 08:26 PM']And of course this is all because of the movement to make women independent of men, and also somehow the same as men...now, men don't have a societal place distinct from women because women don't have a societal place distinct from men, and the result is the metrosexual or overly-sensitive man who doesn't know what it means to be a man.  Also, I'd guess, the high rates of single motherhood are an important cause.
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:applause:

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tata126' date='Jan 5 2006, 09:26 PM']And of course this is all because of the movement to make women independent of men, and also somehow the same as men...now, men don't have a societal place distinct from women because women don't have a societal place distinct from men, and the result is the metrosexual or overly-sensitive man who doesn't know what it means to be a man.  Also, I'd guess, the high rates of single motherhood are an important cause.
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something struck me after the third or fourth time of reading that... high rates of single motherhood? how is that a cause of a metro-sexual man? im way confused.

i dont entirely disagree with the making of women more like men in the early theories of "advancing womanhood" -- i do, however, disagree with some of today's pushes to make women more like men and still seperate from them.