Lounge Daddy Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 [quote name='zwergel88' date='Jan 8 2006, 02:13 PM']You've probably heard these arguments before but hopefully someday you'll see what I mean. [right][snapback]849542[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I have heard those arguments before, they are made by the Mike Moore, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Howard Deen, Cindy Sheehan, Air America left all the time I'll never "see what you mean" because there is not one ounce of truth in those points you made But... WOW... what gets you out of bed in the morning? You sound like a very depressed person living in a very dark world I have to tell you, i am glad that i don't live in your world My world has a free Afghanistan. My world has an Iraq where 15 of the 18 Provinces are already under the direction of the Iraq military, and for the first time the people of Iraq have a say in the future of Iraq The Iraq in my world has had three successful elections and a people that drew up their own constitution – and coalition forces have rebuilt the crippled infrastructure of the Saddam era. In my world the people of the Middle East have seen that democracy brings freedom and are demanding freedom – and denouncing terrorist organizations. In my world the terrorists are losing, their numbers thinning, their organizations are becoming disorganized and broken. In my world unemployment is at about 5% nationally – which is awesome! And our economy kicks butt… it is still swinging despite a year that included the greatest natural disaster in our country’s history and record high gas prices (and despite doom and gloom predictions from the liberal media); and any economy that can absorb that in one year and not flinch is nothing less than the best in the world. In my world the stock market is doing great; so the economy is delivering to both the workers and the investors… and being the Capitalist that I am: I am both a worker and an investor – because in my world I believe in this system. In my world I can see things based on facts not a string of baseless conspiracy theories. In my world there is a reason to get up in the morning. Thing have been on the upswing in my world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 zwergel..some quick things... on your 1st point... 1- Even if it was faulty intel, it was the intel at time. If it looks like someone is threat to us the government has a right to act on it. They made the best decession with the information they had, thats all we can ask of them. 2- Even if Sadam and Osama have a somewhat strained relationship, if Sadam had been able to make a WMD who would be the first person at his door, willing to make whatever amends needed to be made in order to take the US out. The 2 knew each other, and would probably put aside their differences to fight the US. If they hate each other so much why isn't Sadam speaking out against the terrorists in Iraq right now? Why are former Sadam cronies working alongside terrorists? 3- Iraq a veitnam? Hardly... Just look on the numbers on paper. Its far from Vietnam. The only thing that is similar to vietnam is the home front... On your second point... 1- The US constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens. And I haven't heard of any geneva convention violations, only people making accusations. 2- Cases like the Padila case have come before the Supreme Court only to be found as Ok and constitutional. 3rd point... No argument on bush's pro capital punishment record... 1- The deaths in iraq can not be attributed to Bush alone. The terrorists kill tons of innocent civilians every day. To condem Bush and not the terrorists is simply foolish. The face of pure evil is in those videos of the terrorists beheading civilians. Thats evil pure and unadulterated and deserves to be faught. 4th point 1- I'm sure LD will have a bunch of numbers on job creation to prove the point, so I'll let him add those... 2- Outsourcing jobs is not the fault of the Bush adminstration. Its the nature of capitalism. Simple supply and demand graphs show that whoever can offer a product (labor) cheeper will get the demand. If you want to blame someone blame adam smith. Or we could close our borders completely and rename our selves the new USSR. 3- And its funny that the dems now blame Bush for Job loss, yet when he tried to protect jobs with tarrifs (steel tarrifs early in his first administration) the dems were the first to jump on the boat screaming about the first time we have had tarrifs in forever. So which is it? Use tarrifs to protect jobs (which is against the WTO) or let global capitalism work? 5th point 1- Again not Bush's fault the Terrorists hate us. They have sice the 80s and through the 90s. The USS Cole, Lebanon, Beruit... its not something Bush created, he just did something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 [quote name='rkwright' date='Jan 8 2006, 04:36 PM']zwergel..some quick things... 1- I'm sure LD will have a bunch of numbers on job creation to prove the point, so I'll let him add those... [right][snapback]849661[/snapback][/right] [/quote] the current unemployment is 4.9% - and 5% is generally considered full employment, meaning pretty much any one who really wants a job can find one Dec 2004 it was 5.4 [url="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t07.htm"]LINK[/url] [quote]The December in-crease in payroll employment followed a gain of 305,000 in November (as re-vised). Several industries added jobs over the month, including food services, professional and business services, health care, and manufacturing.[/quote] [url="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm"]LINK[/url] [quote]... insured unemployment rate was 2.2 percent during the week ending Dec. 24... The advance unadjusted number for persons claiming UI benefits in state programs totaled 2,851,341...A year earlier, the rate was 2.4 percent and the volume was 3,025,945.[/quote] [url="http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/eta/ui/current.htm"]LINK[/url] the current numbers can be found at the U.S. Dept of Labor, along with all the documents and charts you would never care to read [url="http://www.dol.gov/"]LINK[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 [quote name='rkwright' date='Jan 8 2006, 04:36 PM'] 1- Again not Bush's fault the Terrorists hate us. They have sice the 80s and through the 90s. The USS Cole, Lebanon, Beruit... its not something Bush created, he just did something about it. [right][snapback]849661[/snapback][/right] [/quote] rkwright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akalyte Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 LD Rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty_boy Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 (edited) You wanna talk about corruption? How about President Clinton and Janet Reno who falsely imprisoned Wen Ho Lee for stealing nuclear secrets. What about Janet Reno's mishandling of the standoff in WACO? How about President Clintons former security advisor, Sandy Burger, who was caught stuffing documents down his pants at the National Archives two summers ago. (Wasn't that just before the 9/11 commission report?) Able Danger? Selling overnight trips to the Lincoln bedroom? Just to name a few. Edited January 9, 2006 by Matty_boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akalyte Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 (edited) [quote name='zwergel88' date='Jan 8 2006, 12:13 PM']Okay, here is a consise explaination of why I am totally against Bush and nearly everything that he does... 100,000 civilians may have died in Iraq not to mention the over 2000 dead American soldiers. [right][snapback]849541[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thanks to the Democratic Party more babies than all american soldiers in all our wars combined have died. 50,000,000. Since roe v. wade. 40 years? Edited January 10, 2006 by Akalyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I really am confused by all this Bush lied stuff. The facts are the Saddam both had and used WMDs. Saddam flagrantly violated the terms of the cease fire from Gulf War 1. He kicked out the UN inspectors sent to ensure the WMDs had been distroyed but not before harassing them for years. He regularly shot at US planes enforcing the no-fly zones. He harbored terrorists. Ever heard of Adu Nadal? He gave financial assistance to the families of terrorists who had tried to kill Israelis by blowing themselves up. The bottom line for me is - where is the evidence prior to the war that Saddam had no WMDs? There was solid proof that he had and used them but nothing that said that he had changed his ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty_boy Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Umm, who killedthe 100,000 civilians in Iraq? Could it be the guys who strap bombs to themselves and blow themeselves up in crowds of people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadreSantiago Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 How many civilians do you think were killed just at the beginning by us during the shock and awe part? You know when we were dropping actual bombs on them, not just macguyver style improvised explosives. Now how about the fact that Bush brings other people like Johnsonville brat CHENEY whose only interest is making the big bucks through haliburton in bazillion dollar defense and rebuilding contracts. OR WHAT about FRIGGIN' TREASON? Yes MR. Johnsonville brat leaked plumes identity....that is treason. Then you've got trent lott man what a hilarious racist that guy is! Or Tom Delay? How about the fact that bush has turned a record surplus into a record deficit in record time! OR The fact that president bush has borrowed more money from other countries in his terms than EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT COMBINED! That tax cut you were talking about doesn't even apply to you people. Unless you are rich? Are any of you rich by any chance? What about this little thing called KATRINA? Bush sat on his rear playing a guitar and jerking around while an entire city was practically destroyed leaving thousands without much of anything. Bush also vetoed a bill that would allow us to import our prescription drugs from other countries like canada at a much cheaper price. WHY DID HE DO THIS? Because he is controlled by the corporations so we have to pay out the rear. Also there was that time that we were attacked you know, 9-11 that little old thing. Bush sat there like a deer in headlights for 7 minutes...in the nuclear age for christ sakes?!?!??! What if someone had attacked us for real with a nuclear bomb? 7 minutes is a lifetime in the age of "I'll push this little here button and destroy the entire country." Of course there's the wire taps and the patriot act. Oh goody the government can just search any house they want without a warrent of any kind, they just have to use the magic words "Enemy combantent." Whoops! Oh it's ok you didn't need those rights anyway right? The government should be all powerful and all seeing like that book 1984. Then there is the whole torture thing, and the war he lied to us to get into. Both of those things are just like seeds we are planting that are going to grow into a whole new generation of terrorists that hate us even more. I wish this country had some people with heart and character. It seems to me the only thing that religious people do is murder, kill, and maime for their god; which ironically is the same god. Both sides are to blame but from my vantage point we are doing the most killing, and it doesn't matter anyway because didn't you hear? God is dead; we killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 ...and then there are some people more comforable not rocking the boat, not seeing evil for what it is and would have Saddam returned to office... A dictator who tortured and murdered his own people, and who used WMDs on Iraqis and dumped thier remains in mass graves (270 mass graves uncovered so far... holding the remains of 400,000 people) and who allowed his sons to torture people and operate rape rooms ... ??? yes these extreme liberals long for the "corruption-free" days of the Clinton years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadreSantiago Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 [quote name='PadreSantiago' date='Jan 18 2006, 04:11 AM']God? [right][snapback]859546[/snapback][/right] [/quote] no - its just me, silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 CLINTON ADMIN CRIME STATS - Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47 - Number of these convictions during Clinton's presidency: 33 - Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61 - Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Clinton's remarkable record will also show that he is: , The first elected president in U.S. history to be impeached -- Dec. 19, 1998., The first president to be found guilty of a crime while still in office. (Leaking the private correspondence of Kathleen Willey in violation of the Privacy Act), The first U.S. president to be publicly accused of forcible rape -- by Juanita Broaddrick, Feb. 24, 1999., The first U.S. president to approve the sale of sophisticated weapons technology to a hostile power while its emmisaries contributed to his campaign., The first president to be accused by multiple witnesses, including one under oath before a federal grand jury, of using cocaine while he was the chief law enforcement officer of his state., The first U.S. president to be accused of sexual assault on White House property -- by Kathleen Willey, March 15, 1998., The first U.S. president to order a paramilitary operation where a network television camera crew was punched, kicked, and forced to the ground at gunpoint to prevent them from broadcasting live video coverage. (Elian Gonzalez's abduction -- April 22, 2000), The first sitting president to be the subject of a sexual harassment lawsuit -- filed by Paula Jones, May 8, 1994., The first sitting president to be held in contempt of court for lying under oath and fined by a federal judge (in the Jones lawsuit)., The first U.S. president to order an armored assault on a church, resulting in the deaths of 55 members of the congregation along with 25 of their children. (Waco -- April 19, ,1993), The first U.S. presidential candidate to accept financial support from a KGB spy. (Aldrich Ames -- $7,000, 1991, 92), The first sitting U.S. president to be named in a federal criminal referral as a possible witness to and beneficiary of fraudulant financial activity. (Whitewater), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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