Fidei Defensor Posted January 2, 2006 Author Share Posted January 2, 2006 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jan 2 2006, 05:30 PM']The Church declared Mary the Mother of God at the Council of Ephesus in order to affirm Christ's human nature (human mother, ergo, human nature)...these Baptists are a logical step from denying Christ's humanity and thus, by the way, His salvific sacrifice. [right][snapback]843672[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thats exactly what some of them are saying. There are about 2 of them defending the title, and they keep telling them that they are following heresy if they deny her that title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmaker Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 One word. THEOTOKOS. End of story. To slight Mary by saying she is not the mother of God is slighting Christ himself. The nestarious heretics in my opinion was the spirit of the anti christ; denouncing and detracting the divinity of God. I fell in love with the mother of God when I was studying in Rome. She was the missing piece to the puzzle of my faith. Those of you who didnt know I fell away from the church years ago to the very subject of Mary. It was a nasty time for me. But it was exciting rebuilding my faith in the church. Mary was the final hurdle but now I find her very comforting. This thread is very close to my heart. I heard the best homily at church the other day about the maternity of Mary..(Jan 1st) I cannot express enough gratitude to Mary to what she has done for me in my faith. To all those who are challenged by doctrines about Mary: they can be overcome and it is a very exciting journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ave Maria Totus Tuus Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 eek. i decided to go look at those "Christ Centered Forums" and am so saddened by the hatred there for the Church. it hurts my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avemaria40 Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 It is sad. Especially since some of them might have been Catholics at some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Actually, I think it makes sense that they are discussing it. I don't mean I don't believe it or don't find it perfectly reasonable, but we have the benefit of history and they don't. The question of whether one could call Mary the Mother of God was a huge debate in its day. Since Baptists, right or wrong, reject out -of-hand the debates and decisions of the 5th century Christians, they would have to come up with all the arguments for and against the title on their own, weigh the merits of each, and come to a personal decision about it.... Basically one of the great tragedies of the Protestant life (yes that is a generalization, no it doesn't apply to all Protestants) is the need to constantly re-invent the wheel. Each generation, indeed each individual, has to re-debate all the great theological controversies and arrive at some conclusion rather than trusting those who came before them and building upon the foundation their predecessors provided. It's kind of like if each generation of scientists had to "discover" Mendel's genetic principles or Newton's laws rather than simply being able to build on their work to come to new discoveries. Does that make any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Yeah, that's one reason why Catholicism is the only Christianity for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jan 3 2006, 11:28 AM']Actually, I think it makes sense that they are discussing it. I don't mean I don't believe it or don't find it perfectly reasonable, but we have the benefit of history and they don't. The question of whether one could call Mary the Mother of God was a huge debate in its day. Since Baptists, right or wrong, reject out -of-hand the debates and decisions of the 5th century Christians, they would have to come up with all the arguments for and against the title on their own, weigh the merits of each, and come to a personal decision about it.... Basically one of the great tragedies of the Protestant life (yes that is a generalization, no it doesn't apply to all Protestants) is the need to constantly re-invent the wheel. Each generation, indeed each individual, has to re-debate all the great theological controversies and arrive at some conclusion rather than trusting those who came before them and building upon the foundation their predecessors provided. It's kind of like if each generation of scientists had to "discover" Mendel's genetic principles or Newton's laws rather than simply being able to build on their work to come to new discoveries. Does that make any sense? [right][snapback]844413[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It totally makes sense. I personally think that's why Protestant theology isn't, on the whole, as well-developed as Catholic theology -- they don't have as long a history, and they give a lot less credence to those who have gone before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tojo Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Jan 3 2006, 11:38 AM']It totally makes sense. I personally think that's why Protestant theology isn't, on the whole, as well-developed as Catholic theology -- they don't have as long a history, and they give a lot less credence to those who have gone before. [right][snapback]844430[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yep. I'm so glad I'm Catholic now, I was so tired fromconstantly re-inventing the wheel for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I think it was Cardinal Newman who said something to the effect of "to study history is to become Catholic" (not an exact quote), which I think sums up the situation quite nicely. But my point isn't so much to criticize them for not relying on history as to beg understanding from phatmassers. Given their starting point, their debate is understandable, even if it seems a bit redundant to us. Their plight should prompt us to thank God for the benefit of being able to see with a Catholic world-view. It should elicit pity, not mocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tojo Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jan 3 2006, 12:40 PM']Their plight should prompt us to thank God for the benefit of being able to see with a Catholic world-view. It should elicit pity, not mocking. [right][snapback]844503[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I agree, and I had thought my tone was along these lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 [quote name='tomasio127' date='Jan 3 2006, 10:44 AM']I agree, and I had thought my tone was along these lines... [right][snapback]844510[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sorry tomasio, that sentiment was directed to the thread in general. It wasn't a commentary on your tone. My apologies for not being clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tojo Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM']Sorry tomasio, that sentiment was directed to the thread in general. It wasn't a commentary on your tone. My apologies for not being clear. [right][snapback]844530[/snapback][/right] [/quote] no problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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