EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 What is your stance on ecumenism, religious freedom, and salvation outside the Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I can't excpet any of those things. when it comes to ecumencism i think its fine to pray with protestants under the circumstance it is private worship, and preferably a Catholic is leading the prayers. I do not believe in Relegious freedom for Non-catholics. I believe it is possibile for salvation outside of the church, if the person is invincibley ignorant by no fault of there own and is invisibly united to the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortnun Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 [quote name='Rick777' date='Jan 3 2006, 04:21 PM']So if the Holy Father says that he is for something,(like a social issue)than Catholics aren't bound to agree with him?(im learning so much here ) [right][snapback]844756[/snapback][/right] [/quote] As Catholics, anything that the Magesterium (local bishiops, bishop's conferences, the Holy Father, etc) says we are not obligated to just accept. Nor are we to simply make up the teaching we think we should follow. Rather, we are to learn all we can about a teaching, social issue, etc that is put forth. By using our well (continually) developed consciences, we are to inform ourselves as to whether or not this teaching is one we are to abide by. At least.... that's what I've been taught.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 3 2006, 07:04 PM']I can't excpet any of those things. when it comes to ecumencism i think its fine to pray with protestants under the circumstance it is private worship, and preferably a Catholic is leading the prayers. I do not believe in Relegious freedom for Non-catholics. I believe it is possibile for salvation outside of the church, if the person is invincibley ignorant by no fault of there own and is invisibly united to the church. [right][snapback]844897[/snapback][/right] [/quote] "Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law--though I myself am not under the law--to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law--though I am not outside God's law but within the law of Christ--to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some." 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 Religious freedom is a reality, no matter what one does to supress another religion. The fact is, the choice to accept a religious belief is an internal one. It is impossible to force a true conversion. Your position on salvation outside the Church is not in conflict with the magisterium. Except that the Church would say someone invisibly united to itself is in fact in the Church and not outside of it. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you. John 1:20 just because it is reality doesn't mean it is right. from what i understand the traditonal view of EENS is more conservative in who is invisibly united to the church. we do not like the idea that the Pope goes and preaches in other relegions churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 3 2006, 05:27 PM']from what i understand the traditonal view of EENS is more conservative in who is invisibly united to the church. we do not like the idea that the Pope goes and preaches in other relegions churches. [right][snapback]844921[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I find this almost contradictory. If the role of the Church, and Christ's mission here on Earth was to 'win' souls, and if you hold to a strong 'no salvation outside the church' interpretation, then you should really want the Pope to get out there and preach in other churches. If you care for other people's souls, and you really believe that only those in the visible Catholic Church and those ignorant of Christ can be saved, then you should really really want the Pope and the whole Church reaching out to our brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Just a reminder: dUSt has asked us to avoid Catholic vs. Catholic debate on the board. EENS, If you want (and if your parents are OK with it) you can email me about some of your questions that we can't debate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jan 3 2006, 07:00 PM']Just a reminder: dUSt has asked us to avoid Catholic vs. Catholic debate on the board. [right][snapback]845055[/snapback][/right] [/quote] my fault... forget I said anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Let me clarify what I said earlier (this is not intended as a debate), Religious belief is the intellectual assent to a set of doctrines. You cannot force a conversion because you cannot change the thoughts of someone else with brute force. The Church recognizes this and wishes the civil authorities to protect against undue "evangelistic" brutality that usually does more harm than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 3 2006, 05:04 PM'] I do not believe in Relegious freedom for Non-catholics. [right][snapback]844897[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 14. This shameful font of indifferentism gives rise to that absurd and erroneous proposition which claims that liberty of conscience must be maintained for everyone. It spreads ruin in sacred and civil affairs, though some repeat over and over again with the greatest impudence that some advantage accrues to religion from it. "But the death of the soul is worse than freedom of error," as Augustine was wont to say.[21] When all restraints are removed by which men are kept on the narrow path of truth, their nature, which is already inclined to evil, propels them to ruin. Then truly "the bottomless pit"[22] is open from which John saw smoke ascending which obscured the sun, and out of which locusts flew forth to devastate the earth. Thence comes transformation of minds, corruption of youths, contempt of sacred things and holy laws -- in other words, a pestilence more deadly to the state than any other. Experience shows, even from earliest times, that cities renowned for wealth, dominion, and glory perished as a result of this single evil, namely immoderate freedom of opinion, license of free speech, and desire for novelty. -Mirari Vos X. ERRORS HAVING REFERENCE TO MODERN LIBERALISM 77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855. -Syllabus of Errors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) I did not say that Catholicism should not be the religion of the state. I am saying that the Church has always believed that converting people should be by preaching the Gospel, not enacting laws. A state can espouse Catholicism without throwing Protestants into jail. [quote][b]CCC 2108:[/b] The right to religious liberty is neither a moral license to adhere to error, nor a supposed right to error, but rather a natural right of the human person to civil liberty, i.e., immunity, within just limits, from external constraint in religious matters by political authorities. This natural right ought to be acknowledged in the juridical order of society in such a way that it constitutes a civil right.[/quote] We are not supposed to force people to "convert", as if physical force could make one a devout and knowledgable believer in Catholicism. Ok that's enough from me before... Edited January 5, 2006 by thedude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 oh i am not for forced conversion. sorry for the confusion but i think That catholicism should be the relegion of the state. (as do you) God Bless, Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I am glad we were able to sort out the confusion. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now