Dating

[Lilllabettt]

I know this has probably already been addressed but anyway ...

What have you guys heard about discerning while dating? Everything I've ever been told says: don't do it. It can confuse things. And it's a risky business, because once you're "in love" with someone, its hard to break it off with them, even to follow what you know is your true vocation.

I understand that it's important to have a wide range of experience, to comprehend what you're giving up, as well as what you're gaining, with the vows ... but can't that experience be gained by doing some "world-widening" stuff like ... college, or a new job in a different city?

This is from the Nashville Dom's website ... it says what I'm trying to get across:

"Spiritual directors and those guiding someone in discernment should recognize the fact that we are all programmed by nature to union with the opposite sex. The closer we come to readiness for a religious commitment, the more disposed we will be for a natural commitment to a human person. That is why people in discernment need to be on their guard. Entering into serious relationships when one is searching for God’s will can result in much confusion and heartache. We tend to think that we have control over our relationships and deny the powerful connections that can take place both spiritually and physically between sincere, well meaning people. It is painful and often impossible to discern opposing desires. In other words, one is not going to be able to consider religious life when the heart is beating in more than one direction. More often than not, the choice of marriage is made or, if religious life is pursued, it is done with a heart bruised and inclined to wonder, “What if?” Such a disposition is hardly one in which a successful break from the world can be made. "

[OLAM Dad]

Lilllabettt,

The Nashville Doms give some great advice, IMO.

You mentioned that when dating you might fall 'in love' with somebody, effectively sidelining your true religious vocation. This could be true. However, it might also be true that a failed relationship might sour your opinion of marriage when that might be the vocation to which you are called. It can work both ways.

Also, I'm curious what you mean by 'dating'. I'm not a big fan of dating. I think that courting is a more appropriate term/activity. If you want to go out and have fun on the town then do it with somebody of your own sex or with a group. If you're looking for a spouse, then you are courting and doing that while you are discerning a religious vocation, which is also courting if you think about it, would be like dating two guys at the same time. Wrong!

Good Luck

Edited December 27, 2005 by OLAM Dad

[uruviel]

well, I believe it's different for everybody. It all depends on very many things, it can't be a general question as "can I date during discnerment" Do you feel called to the religous life? Have you started dating? If so, is it serious? Are you planning on marying or are you dating to make it more clear? I believe that if you have a vocation it never really goes away, and if you start dating and going into worldy stuff, of course the world is going to seem appealing, and then you will say, "The world is for me, so I think I should marry" But you have to go with, what do you truley think God wants me to do. And to find that out you must pray, do adoration, trust in God, and know that He will lead you to whatever is best for you. But dating may throw off your appeal to the religious life and make it confusing and harder. And you'll never really know if you were called or not if you marry, I think you explore both area's, but in the world area, don't go too far, because the world is so appealing. I hope this makes sense and I will pray for you. Thank you,
Good luck,
In Christ, Lori

[Lilllabettt]

Thank you both for your advice!

I'm not asking for myself, really ... just inquiring in general about what other people have been hearing. I made the decision not to date while discerning, and I truly haven't regretted it. It's been a real blessing for me, clearing my head of emotional clutter and giving me a more objective perspective of what God wants vs. what I'm "feeling."

My strategy:
I started seriously discerning my vocation right after I was Confirmed, and I knew, intuitively, that I didn't want to complicate matters by dating anyone while I was doing that. So I bought an inexpensive little silver ring and wore it on my ring finger. When guys "make a move" so to speak, I can just point to my ring, smile, and say "I'm taken." Some guys might see the ring and not make a move to begin with. It's a polite and easy way of declining, I think.

(Although I had some explaining to do when the people I know noticed it. I don't discuss my vocation with a lot of people in the "real" world ... so I usually just say it's a chastity ring, which it sort of is.) It worked for me, and I'm pretty sure of my vocation because I gave myself the time and space to figure it out.

OLAMdad... by dating, I mean the casual stuff that bambini my age typically engage in. Although, by that definition, I would probably not be for "dating" in any case, discerning or not. I feel like young people shouldn't be going on private outings with one another until they're at a point in their lives where they're ready to consider actually getting married. You're right, courting is a better term.

[she_who_is_not]

For a while in college I wore a ring that I called my "promise ring" and it symbolized my commitment to be chaste until marriage. It was a good way to tell guys what I was about but it was a reminder to myself as well. There were times when I'd be a frat party doing something stupid and getting too flirty and I would just look at it and come back to my senses. I, like Olam Dad think that dating in general can be kind of dangerous. it's important that there is an element of trust and friendship when dating or courting. When you are discerning your vocation in life the most important thing is to give everything to God. I think that means that you should pray and reflect about people you go out with as you would before visiting a religious community. I guess in short what I am trying to say is if you are going to date, in general, you need to be serious about it and be self aware. Having confidence, self-esteem, and staying close to God will really protect you when dating. Be picky about who you date. Pray about people who ask you out. Involve your family or other people who love you. This is a really long-winded answer but I guess what I am trying to say if someone is dating during discernment they need to remember to put God first in both areas.
God's Peace,
Amanda

[the_rev]

I thinkg dating and discerning is the best way to go.

If you become an ordained or consecrated person, and never dated, you will always have doubt, you may not be one hundred percent sure that you are at the heart of your vocation.

I currently am dating a girl (finally) I found a girl at church, I called her up and asked her to go out on a date. tomorrow we are going to a basket ball game together!

[Lilllabettt]

Yay!!!!! Congratulations!!!!!

[quote]I currently am dating a girl  tomorrow we are going to a basket ball game together![/quote]

You said:

[quote]If you become an ordained or consecrated person, and never dated, you will always have doubt, you may not be one hundred percent sure that you are at the heart of your vocation.[/quote]

I don't agree ... and you know, Sr. Catherine Marie (or Sister Mary Emily, or whoever wrote the current Vocation FAQ at [url="http://www.nashvilledominican.org/Vocation/Questions_and_Answers/index.htm"]Nashville's site[/url] doesn't agree either:)

"The fact is that God calls all kinds of people to union with Him in all kinds of ways. It is not necessary to enter into marriage to truly know whether or not one is called to marriage. It is also reasonable to conclude that one doesn’t have to have had a serious romantic relationship before one can know she is called to the religious life."

Certainly a lot of the Saints (St. Therese!) were 100% sure about their vocations despite being relatively sheltered, "dateless wonders" as it were. Oh well, different strokes for different folks

[the_rev]

[quote]Certainly a lot of the Saints (St. Therese!) were 100% sure about their vocations despite being relatively sheltered, "dateless wonders" as it were. Oh well, different strokes for different folks happy.gif[/quote]

And I personally am not one of them. If I become ordained and didn't date I will always have a doubt. If I marry, I won't have a doubt as I have tried on the life of a priest....

I continue to pray about it.

[passionheart]

"Ah to date or not to date that is the question" ( My apologies to Mr. William Shakespeare : )


I believe this question is a very difficult to answer but I also believe that it is different for everyone. As you know I am 43 and I have never dated!!!!

Now a friend of mine told me that a religious community wouldn't consider me because it could very well appear that I am hiding or have a fear of a relationships.

Well for me I didn't date for one simple reason........No one ever asked Now, was I happy about this NO!!!! Especially since the doors of the religious life remained firmly shut to me. Believe me, I wanted to date but it didn't happen. One day, angrily, I went up the church where there was adoration and I said to the Lord "Would it have hurt your plan for me if I had ONE DATE in my life". Later, it was reveal to me that my lack of dating in my life was actually a protection from the Lord.

Unfortunately, when I was younger, I was wounded. As a result, I was desperate to cling to anyone who would provide me a little comfort and attention. I know if I had entered into a realationship back then, I would have been in a very bad situation. So I thank the Lord and now with help I have received, I can now freely embrace an relationship in love.

However, for me I know my call and my desire is to celibate. For me, the only Spouse I desire is Jesus. I have made the commitment in words and in my heart and that is that. Funny, after I made this quiet commintment to our Lord, THEN the guys started to show interest in me. Too Late, I have fallen love with my Beloved and I want no other.

So as I said my friends, each story is different and you have to discern and listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying to you. It can be hard story like mine but AHHH there is Joy in the end.

[Lilllabettt]

What a beautiful story! You made my day!


[quote name='passionheart' date='Dec 27 2005, 08:56 PM']"Ah to date or not to date that is the question" ( My apologies to Mr. William Shakespeare : )
I believe this question is a very difficult to answer but I also believe that it is different for everyone. As you know I am 43 and I have never dated!!!!

Now a friend of mine told me that a religious community wouldn't consider me because it could very well appear that I am hiding or have a fear of a relationships.

Well for me I didn't date for one simple reason........No one ever asked   Now, was I happy about this NO!!!! Especially since the doors of the religious life remained firmly shut to me. Believe me,  I  wanted to date but it didn't happen. One day, angrily, I went up the church where there was adoration and I said to the Lord "Would it have hurt your plan for me if I had ONE DATE in my life".  Later, it was  reveal to me that my lack of dating in my life was actually a protection from the Lord.

Unfortunately, when I was younger, I was wounded. As a result, I was desperate to cling to anyone who would provide me a little comfort and attention. I know if I had entered into a realationship back then, I would have been in a very bad situation. So I thank the Lord and now with help I have received, I can now freely embrace an relationship in love.

However, for me I know my call and my desire is to celibate. For me, the only Spouse I desire is Jesus. I have made the commitment in words and in my heart and that is that.  Funny, after I made this quiet commintment to our Lord, THEN the guys started to show interest in me. Too Late, I have fallen love with my Beloved and I want no other.

So as I said my friends, each story is different and you have to discern and listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying to you. It can be hard story like mine but AHHH there is Joy in the end.
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[jgirl]

That excerpt from the Nashville Dominicans site opened my eyes and made me feel more normal! I am committed to a religious order and am waiting to enter. The hardest part about being in the world still are the young men who live around me. I never seriously dated during high school because I was pretty sure that my heart was being drawn toward a religious vocation (I went to prom with a good friend from Church and then on a few others in college, but never steady dating). It sounds crazy because in high school my best friends were boys, but it wasn't hard not to date. It has only been recently that I desire a relationship like that, although I know in my heart that I am still called to the religious life. Even though I am very much attracted to the 20-something male population, I know that I don't regret my decision to enter religious life without serious dating. Had it been the other way with dating and possibly marriage, I would have always questioned whether or not I made the right decision.

[daugher-of-Mary]

I made the decision not to date during highschool, and that wasn't too difficult to stick to. Some of my best friends are guys, but choosing not to date provided a lot of protection I think, and gave me room to discern seriously. I'm not sure what I'll do in college. I've already met some simply wonderful Catholic guys who have become dear friends very fast, and I think it will be a struggle to stay out of a dating relationship. God seems to have made us to long to give of self to another, and it is a struggle to do that on a purely spiritual level as one preparing to be a bride of Christ. He seems to provide though! The quote from the Nashville Dominicans was a wonderful encouragement!

[Franziskaner]

I'm going to tell my story and see what that spurs. I'm 33 years old and as of roughly 5 months ago I have for the first time become open to the possibility of the priesthood. This happened because a few people asked if I have ever considered it and I felt like maybe it is something I should. Ever since I was little I have dreamed of being married and even when I misbehaved, I would ask myself if I would want my child to behave that way. I've done a LOT of dating in the last year and a half. I believe there to be a non-exclusive stage before entering into a formal courtship, exclusive stage. My last girlfriend broke up with me in September of 2004 and we were technically chaste during our relationship. I have not kissed anyone after Septmeber '04 since I have not been in a committed relationship though I did go on 12 dates with one "young" lady before deciding she did not currently have the potential to love me the way I required. She is still my friend and I have to be very careful not to fall in love with her so I try to space out how often I see her and make sure the hug goodbye is VERY brief, nothing like when we went on dates. Since I have loved her in a chaste brotherly-sisterly way, we are able to keep a certain emotional and physical distance. It takes someone who is very emotionally and spiritually mature to love someone like a sister in this way and the Holy Spirit has given me this Grace. I have gone on dates with probably at least 15 different women since Sept '04 if not more and every one of them has been a pure experience. The reason I go slow and treat dating this way is because I want to be gentle with a woman's heart (as well as my own). I don't want to pretend we are married when we are in a non-committed stage where we don't even truly know each other yet. If I decide to kiss someone, I want it to be because I have taken time to know her and I choose to do so, not because "it felt right at the time". I have been studying people and studying love and studying dating. I think that maybe I have reached a certain understanding of Love and being gentle and putting "her" before me or capital "H" - Him before me and it is this understanding of mine that people see when they ask if I have thought of the priesthood. It also might be because I talk about God and religion A LOT (I'm obsessed about Him). I believe the formation of a Catholic single is the same either preparing for marriage or preparing for the priesthood. We ALL are called to strive for holiness. I'm not sure that success in this striving should mean one is "Called". I think that knowing how to love and be pure and gentle is the way EVERY Catholic man needs to prepare himself for marriage or otherwise. I think it is a shame that Catholic women see a good guy like me and think I am called to the priesthood just because I might mention things about dressing immodestly or waiting until marriage, etc.

I went on a cruise with Catholic singles group and spoke with a priest who does marriage counseling. He said that each member of a couple has come from two diffrent sets of parents and they both think that the way they were raised is the right way. This belief causes conflict and this conflict is called Family of Origin issues. The priest said that the members of the couple need to die a little death on their cross each day (or several times a day) and realize that they are in a brand new relationship with unlimited possibilities and God is in charge of this new ideal. It was with this analogy that I realized that I needed to conquer my own Family of Origin issues by letting my dream of marriage die a little death on the cross. It has been a slow process to move from being "open to the priesthood" to "discerning the priesthood". I have to think about what talents God has given me and how they can best be used. God has given me skills in musical instruments, voice, computer programming, logic, critical thinking, business, and social skills that have allowed me to grow our YA group from 4 to 75 members. I actually do not have a problem attracting women, but I have become ever increasingly particular about whom I will consider dating. Often, when I am interested in a woman, she is not interested in me and vice versa. Such is life. God might want me to be a Dad. God might want me to continue in the business world so I can donate money. God might want me to be a missionary. God might want me to stay where I am and be a Diocesan priest. God might want me to be brother. God might want me to join a third order or join the deaconate later in life. I think I could be a good pastor with my business skills, so that might be what God wants of me.

I think my job now is to pray, pray, pray, pray, and then pray. The last two girls I went out on a date with criticised me for dating and considering the priesthood. One of them said that since I go to bed at 8pm to get up by 4 to pray, that that doesn't allow me to have a social life. She is wrong. My social life is when it is light out (helps keep us chaste too). I have heard "I can't compete with God" also. That would be true and very observant. I think the woman who would be right for me would have to be VERY spiritually and emotionally developed and know how to let go and let God. It is not all about her. It is not all about me. It is all about Him. When we are dating non-exclusively, no one should be so attached that they would be hurt by the other answering God's call. Life is a learning process and you don't close yourself off from the world to learn. God knows everything, I don't. God knows His plan for me, I don't. I pray so that I will be in union with Him in all my actions. If he puts a wonderful Catholic woman in front of me who will bring me closer to Him, it would be trying to modify God's plan to NOT date her. The right woman for me will not interrupt my prayer life. The right woman for me, will join in my prayer life. There is a reason I have not found her, but I don't know the reason yet. The reason might be that I have a religious vocational Calling. The reason might be that I need to go through this spiritual growth regardless. I have been dating all the while through it and I am planning on dating anyone who is mature enough to handle God's will.

I am doing my part. Currently, I go to Mass 4 days a week. I pray the Rosary daily. I pray Liturgy of the Hours daily. I am looking forward to beginning to pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet. I look forward to getting to a point of going to daily Mass. I look forward to forming a devotion to the Blessed Sacrament. I given my bedroom a holy "feel" by making a shrine in it and I pray by candlelight. I am only going to get closer to God and closer to His will. I have women friends who are my sisters in Christ and male friends who are my brothers in Christ. Occasionally I will date a sister in Christ and treat her accordingly. I will not date anyone who had sex with her last boyfriend and since we both know how to practice chastity we are on the same page and there is little to no danger of falling out of Grace.

All that said, I came to this website to learn. I don't want to do the wrong thing. I don't want to break a woman's heart... but then again, I am not at the point of deciding whether or not to be exclusive with anyone today. It would be ridiculously immature of a woman's heart to be broken before entering courtship phase and no one can be held responsible for that since marriage is marriage, courtship is courtship, and non-exclusive dating is non-exclusive dating. Perhaps it would be wrong to enter in a courtship phase when discerning the priesthood. I'm not sure since God is in control, not us. We can do know wrong when we are in line with God. Anyone else?

[Franziskaner]

Okay I tried to put the shoe on the other foot here:

I thought about whether or not I would date someone who is considering being a nun. I think I would approach it the same way I would approach anyone. Dating and life are not competitions. I'm not competing with God. If she chooses God, she is free to choose God. If she chooses a covenant between her, I, and God, then that is a choice of her free will and hopefully God's will. I am in control of my emotions, not her. I can love her as freely as I love anyone who I date non-exclusively. I think I would continue to date her non-exclusively even after 3 months because of the obvious risk. She would be "dating" two people at once by discerning a vocation to religious life anyway so it seems fair. I guess someone who would not be open to dating someone who is discerning would have to be a more controlling jealous type or at least someone who does not understand that "Love is patient". Let God figure it out. There's no harm done to you. Being jealous of God or saying "I can't compete with God" seems to come from the wrong place. Someone who would say "I can't compete with God" would have to ask himself, am I competing with other men? Be yourself. Be genuine. Be real. No reason to compete. If someone is going to love you for who you are, then they will. If not, what is the difference as long as you are striving for holiness the entire time. Our self esteem comes from knowing we are performing God's will, not from whether or not we beat out some perceived competitor in a perceived competition (a.k.a game). To be yourself is to not play the game. To compete against other men is a game. Men who AREN'T interested in playing games would actually choose to date a woman discerning a vocation, especially since she must have a great capacity to love freely.

[Lilllabettt]

Welcome to Phatmass, Franziskaner!! Be sure to introduce yourself on OpenMic!!

And thank you for your thoughtful response! Your experience is priceless knowledge!

"Courtship" refers (I think) to an exclusive relationship which the parties agree is leading to marriage. (eek, I sound like a lawyer.) It means, you're spending time with this or that person with the view that she or he is going to be your wife or husband some day.

Okay, this is crude. but here goes. You know those "Bachelor" or "Bachelorette" programs they show on ABC? The "bachelor" dates a dozen girls, whittling them down to two. With these two women he's supposed to be seriously thinking about marriage. He smooches, dances slow, talks about the future with both of them.

And the normal, gut reaction is: That's WRONG! How can he be making out with two different people? How can he be contemplating giving his whole self to one girl, and at the same time be thinking about giving himself to another? It makes it seem like his affections for neither of them are authentic.

So let's apply that to the spiritual plane. If you're contemplating giving your whole self to the Church as a priest, how can you be contemplating giving your whole self to a girl in the Holy Sacrament of Matrimony at the same time?

That's why, in addition to the practical "confusion" reasons, I think it'd be the wrong choice to court while discerning. As for casual dating ... welllll ... I personally don't think men and women should be spending un-escorted "alone time" together unless they are "courting," that is, at a time and place in their spiritual lives where they are preparing for marriage. But that's just me

Once again, welcome to the phamily!!!!