Getting my title

[zdog042]

Several reasons for this post.

#1 - I want to make sure to get my "I do not represent the Church" tag for my name. I am a Protestant. I hope that this does not make others on this board respect me less, but I did not want to be posting here without clearly identifying myself, and having the tag will make it much easier to identify myself as such.

Having said this, this isn't about "Protestant Pride", but about labeling myself as what I am. This is about not being mistaken for something I am not. I would hate for a person to come onto this site, read something that I wrote (be it inline with Catholic Teachings or not) and believe that I am a Catholic who can represent the Catholic theology. I am not able to represent this branch of Christianity, and therefore must label myself as such. If nothing else, this is akin to the lepers calling out "Unclean! Unclean!" as they approached non-lepers.

To be honest, I don't believe that I can "speak" for any particular faith, as no authority has been vested in me by any ecclesiological body of Christianity. Without authority, there is no theological voice to be heard, there is no reason to listen to a person. The lay person can talk, but most Christian theologians that I have talked to would not want them to teach unless they have been given the training and the authority to do so. This is specifically to avoid wrong teachings, as somebody who has not been taught what the doctrine of the denomination is can not teach it to another. With this said, a person who has not been given authority can speak about and repeat what another has said, but any theological views that they come up with are subject to approval by one with authority.

This is why I like the tag system of phatmass. Those with authority are marked with a "clergy" badge. I strongly believe in the difference between clergy and laity. One has authority, the other does not. What the laity teaches and says is subject to the authority of the clergy.

So, the debate in this one is not about "the priesthood of all believers". I would like to talk and see if anybody can actually "speak for the church" if they have not been given the training and the authority. I fully respect the clergy's authority to teach, but the rest of us can only copy what they teach. The theology that is spoken here should be subject to the authority of the clergy, and if that is true, can non clergy [b]truly[/b] speak for the church? Is the label "does not speak for the church" faulty, as can people without the clergy label speak for the church?

Again, having said this, I am truly grateful for the tagging system here. On this site, I don't have to wonder who holds what beliefs, as it is already posted for me.

I probably have not been clear with my post, as I am much better at speaking face-to-face than I am through words, so I hope to clear up any misconceptions as the debate goes on.

[morostheos]

try to send a PM to dUSt, he's the one in charge of tags.

[philothea]

[quote name='zdog042' date='Dec 21 2005, 07:25 PM']Several reasons for this post.

#1 - I want to make sure to get my "I do not represent the Church" tag for my name. I am a Protestant. I hope that this does not make others on this board respect me less, but I did not want to be posting here without clearly identifying myself, and having the tag will make it much easier to identify myself as such.
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Just put something in your signature or your profile to the effect that you're not Catholic. You don't want your tag changed from phatmasser -- you lose some useful phorum pheatures as an official not-repping-the-Church personage.

We like Protestants, no worries. Though people may debate you...

(Not me, right now, though. I'm supposed to be working! )

to Phatmass!

[philothea]

[quote name='morostheos' date='Dec 21 2005, 08:44 PM']try to send a PM  to dUSt, he's the one in charge of tags.
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Only CF+ can PM dUSt.

And he doesn't read them anyway.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

I have a tag too. welcome to the club. of course i really don't want to have mine.

welcome to the phorum.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[Anastasia13]

This is much like what I did when I joined except mine was more about me and I still like the idea of a non-Catholic Christian tag. I'm sure you'll be very cool around here. Welcome.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Light and Truth

[Theoketos]

Do not PM email...He reads those when he is board...

[N/A Gone]

hookin a brother up

[Budge]

[quote]Those with authority are marked with a "clergy" badge. I strongly believe in the difference between clergy and laity. One has authority, the other does not. [u]What the laity teaches and says is subject to the authority of the clergy[/u].[/quote]

I believe that some churches have made the incredible error of a clergy class that has been way too elevated and not made accountable. The apostles taught elsewhere FOLLOW ME AS I FOLLOW CHRIST. This does not mean laity was to be crushed under the boot of an oppressive clergy class. Elsewhere in the bible, it has the apostles saying Act 5:29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.




Gal 4:1 ¶ Now I say, [b][That] the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;[/b]

Gal 4:2 [b]But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.[/b]

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

[quote]
[u]Without authority, there is no theological voice to be heard, there is no reason to listen to a person.[/u] The lay person can talk, but most Christian theologians that I have talked to would not want them to teach unless they have been given the training and the authority to do so. This is specifically to avoid wrong teachings, as somebody who has not been taught what the doctrine of the denomination is can not teach it to another. [u]With this said, a person who has not been given authority can speak about and repeat what another has said, but any theological views that they come up with are subject to approval by one with authority[/u].[/quote]

Considering Jesus chose fishermen and tax collectors for apostles, rather then SCRIBES, the above makes no sense.

So you consider only those who have been approved by so and so seminary and given the theological stamp of approval as only being the ones who are legitimate to teach?

I wonder how Christianity got off the ground with all those "apostolic successors" spending years in ancient graduate school...

[Maggyie]

[quote]This does not mean laity was to be crushed under the boot of an oppressive clergy class.[/quote]

Of course not. Who says it does?