Abortion vs. Death Penalty

[Guest Rick777]

(Arnold is an awful governer)

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jan 2 2006, 11:40 PM']The last time I checked, Arnold Schwartzenegger didn't fit that criteria.  And California isn't a Southern state.

Again, validity and soundness, not uninformed predjudice.  Try again.
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When did I mention Cali? But look on a map, it is in the south.

[Guest Rick777]

[quote name='catholicinsd' date='Jan 2 2006, 09:50 PM']When did I mention Cali? But look on a map, it is in the south.
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???
California=West Coast

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='Rick777' date='Jan 2 2006, 11:53 PM']???
California=West Coast
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California is the Southern West Coast.

[Cam42]

[quote name='catholicinsd' date='Jan 3 2006, 12:50 AM']When did I mention Cali? But look on a map, it is in the south.
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When you speak of "The South," you connotate the meaning of the Civil War South. California was a Union State. It was not the South.

I suppose I should cut you some slack, since you're only 16 years old, however, Brandon, you are making some pretty bold statements and they are incredibly ignorant.

I would suggest that you think before you speak (type). If not, you will be made to look like a fool.

Confederate States:

South Carolina (December 21, 1860),
Mississippi (January 9, 1861),
Florida (January 10, 1861),
Alabama (January 11, 1861),
Georgia (January 19, 1861),
Louisiana (January 26, 1861), and
Texas (February 1, 1861).
Virginia (April 17, 1861),
Arkansas (May 6, 1861),
North Carolina (May 20, 1861), and
Tennessee (June 8, 1861).

Union States:

Maine
New Hampshire
Vermont
Mass.
Rhode Island
Connecticut
New York
New Jersey
Pennsylvania
Michigan
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Illinois
Indiana
Ohio
Kansas
California

Border States:

West Virginia
Kentucky
Maryland
Missouri
Delaware
New Mexico (Union)
Arizona (Confederacy)

Foolish.....that is how you are beginning to look.

[Cam42]

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/camilam42/768px-Civilwarmap.jpg[/img]

Map of the division of the states during the Civil War. Blue represents Union states, including those admitted during the war; light blue represents Union states which permitted slavery; gray represents Confederate states. Green areas were not states before or during the Civil War.

Just because you asked for a map.

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jan 3 2006, 12:15 AM']When you speak of "The South,"  you connotate the meaning of the Civil War South.  California was a Union State.  It was not the South.

I suppose I should cut you some slack, since you're only 16 years old, however, Brandon, you are making some pretty bold statements and they are incredibly ignorant.

I would suggest that you think before you speak (type).  If not, you will be made to look like a fool.

Confederate States:

South Carolina (December 21, 1860),
Mississippi (January 9, 1861),
Florida (January 10, 1861),
Alabama (January 11, 1861),
Georgia (January 19, 1861),
Louisiana (January 26, 1861), and
Texas (February 1, 1861).
Virginia (April 17, 1861),
Arkansas (May 6, 1861),
North Carolina (May 20, 1861), and
Tennessee (June 8, 1861).

Union States:

Maine
New Hampshire
Vermont
Mass.
Rhode Island
Connecticut
New York
New Jersey
Pennsylvania
Michigan
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Illinois
Indiana
Ohio
Kansas
California

Border States:

West Virginia
Kentucky
Maryland
Missouri
Delaware
New Mexico (Union)
Arizona (Confederacy)

Foolish.....that is how you are beginning to look.
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Firstly, You brought up Cali not me

Secondly, Cali is a state on our southern border

Thirdly, you're trying to get off the topic of the Death Penalty, cause you know I'm right.

[Cam42]

[quote name='catholicinsd' date='Jan 3 2006, 01:21 AM']Firstly, You brought up Cali not me

Secondly, Cali is a state on our southern border

Thirdly, you're trying to get off the topic of the Death Penalty, cause you know I'm right.
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I am not getting off the topic of the death penalty. You are the one who will not prove your position. As it is Brandon, I would ask that you either prove your position with facts or assent your will to Catholic teaching.

Here it is again:

[quote name='CCC #2267']Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."[/quote]

Learn and stop being so prideful about your position. You are wrong. You need to learn and stop being so obsitnant, your lack of understanding is showing through.

You can't do the end around on me. I know how to debate. I also know how to handle topics, multiple or single....good luck with your rebuttal though.

[Guest Rick777]

This is what Im pretty sure the Church teaches
Abortion is a mortal sin, no question,its wrong, the death penalty under severe circumstances is acceptable, and murder in war is acceptable(just war).

I think in America we abuse the death penalty and use it as simply "sweet revenge".

Edited January 3, 2006 by Rick777

[Cam42]

[quote name='Rick777' date='Jan 3 2006, 01:35 AM']This is what Im pretty sure the Church teaches
Abortion is a mortal sin, no question,its wrong, the death penalty under severe circumstances is acceptable, and murder in war is acceptable(just war).

I think in America we abuse the death penalty and use it as simply "sweet revenge".
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[catholicinsd]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jan 3 2006, 12:26 AM']I am not getting off the topic of the death penalty.  You are the one who will not prove your position.  As it is Brandon, I would ask that you either prove your position with facts or assent your will to Catholic teaching.

Here it is again:

[quote name='CCC #2267']Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."[/quote]

Learn and stop being so prideful about your position. You are wrong. You need to learn and stop being so obsitnant, your lack of understanding is showing through.

You can't do the end around on me. I know how to debate. I also know how to handle topics, multiple or single....good luck with your rebuttal though.
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I'm wrong to say killing someone is wrong?

Cam, you are 33 with how much power over pm and ur picking a 16 year old kid? The expressions "Pick on someone ur own size" and "My opinion is mine & yours is yours" both come to mind.

[Guest Rick777]

Hes just trying to help you with stating Catholic beliefs......

[jmjtina]

[quote]I'm wrong to say killing someone is wrong?

Cam, you are 33 with how much power over pm and ur picking a 16 year old kid? The expressions "Pick on someone ur own size" and "My opinion is mine & yours is yours" both come to mind. [/quote]

that isn't what you are saying. You are saying those who choose to believe in the death penalty should be excommunicated. Killing someone is wrong, no one disagrees with that, but most of your claims are based on your "opinion". Which is fine, but you can't even defend your opinion without stating more opinions.

Provide facts with your opinion. This is the debate table. Back up what you say instead of sounding like a broken record.

Edited January 3, 2006 by jmjtina

[catholicinsd]

Capital Punishment is the Ethenasia of a person who made a bad choice.

Ethenasia- killing someone you can't handle anymore

[Cam42]

[quote name='catholicinsd' date='Jan 3 2006, 01:41 AM'][quote name='Cam42']Learn and stop being so prideful about your position.  You are wrong.  You need to learn and stop being so obsitnant, your lack of understanding is showing through.

You can't do the end around on me.  I know how to debate.  I also know how to handle topics, multiple or single....good luck with your rebuttal though.
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[/quote]

I'm wrong to say killing someone is wrong?

Cam, you are 33 with how much power over pm and ur picking a 16 year old kid? The expressions "Pick on someone ur own size" and "My opinion is mine & yours is yours" both come to mind.
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Oh, I don't have much power over PM. I am not picking on a 16 year old kid, I am trying to teach you that your position is wrong. I am sorry that you refuse to accept the proper catechetical position, but I am not going to back off, because of your age, nor am I going to cut you any slack. If you think that I am picking on you, you are sadly mistaken. Read those threads.....this is softball stuff compared to how I normally debate. Ask anyone who has really gone at it with me.

Incidentally, I am giving you Catholic teaching, not opinion. My opinion happens to be lock-step with said teaching, as are all moral issues, but then again, that's what one get's when one assents one's will to the teaching of the Church.

In this case, I can tell you honestly, 4 years of undergraduate Theology resulting in a BA (as well as degrees in Philosophy and Catholic Studies) and 2 more of graduate work in Systematics, my view on Catholic teaching is quite informed and quite correct. When one is a Theologian, by degree, his opinion holds some weight.