College Education

[rkwright]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 20 2005, 05:21 PM']I can only speak for my own, but I know many Catholics who have turned out stronger because of it.

Now I also know people from aTm who are also very strong Catholics.


[right][snapback]832185[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


WHOOP! Texas A&M has one of the strongest parish communities I have ever been around. Its a large public school (45,000) so it has so many opportunities but its so conservative that there are many many religious organizations on campus. I do something with the church there nearly every day....

for a public school I was extremely surprised at how much religion plays a part in the daily life of the students!

of course A&M focus is on argiculture and engineering so if you're looking for a liberal arts program I dunno...I would choose a smaller Catholic school for that.

And being in the south it will test your faith! You better be ready to defend it becuase there are many protestants that love to talk religion! I had a friend that was handed a million dollar bill tract maybe 2 weeks ago, someone asking him the 10 commandments and which ones he had broken..

Edited December 21, 2005 by rkwright

[Cathurian]

I'm applying to St. Thomas Aquinas :

[Colleen]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Dec 20 2005, 08:47 PM']No, I didn't say anything about heterodoxy.  What I said was liberal.  There is a difference.  Being able to defend against liberal thought is totally different than defending against heterodox thought.

The college I went to was liberal, but it was not heterodox.  Liberal thinking forces one to think through conservatism, into a more orthodox understanding of the faith.

If you always equate liberalism with heterodoxy, you will find yourself painted into a corner.  Read John Henry Cardinal Newman.  In order to come to the orthodox view that he eventually came to, he was very liberal in his thought, however, as he was becoming Catholic, he moved through conservatism into orthodoxy.

A strong Catholic University doesn't have to be conservative, it has to be orthodox.  Liberalism can find a place, if it is authentic and serving the greater good.

Don't get caught in the liberal=heterodox trap.  It is false and it is an inauthentic viewpoint.
[right][snapback]832267[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Just curious, how do you define liberal (at least in this particular context)?

[TheoGrad07]

I vote for a university with a strong Catholic identity. Like Q, I go to University of Dallas -- I love it!

I'm sure there's a lot to learn from the challenges one faces at a secular university -- but I think one gets a better formation in Catholic theology, a better intellectual understanding of one's Faith, at a university with a strong, orthodox Catholic identity.

We do so much growing during our years at university, I think it's important that growing takes place in a strongly orthodox Catholic environment. Our thinking matures and changes ... what is more important than that our understanding of our Faith is nurtured? I don't think most high school graduates have the intellectual training and developement to understand and defend the Faith in the way a graduate of a Catholic university has -- and I don't think continual "combat" (subtle or in-your-face) is the best training. Training in intellectual and theological thinking, such as is given here at UD, is a great advantage for living and defending the Faith in the way one will have to.

I've gained a much deeper knowledge, understanding, and appreciation of the Faith here at UD. My thinking has changed so much ... and thanks to the awesome UD professors, my understanding of the Church and the Faith has grown, too.

I love UD and UD profs! :

[Socrates]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Dec 20 2005, 07:47 PM']No, I didn't say anything about heterodoxy.  What I said was liberal.  There is a difference.  Being able to defend against liberal thought is totally different than defending against heterodox thought.

The college I went to was liberal, but it was not heterodox.  Liberal thinking forces one to think through conservatism, into a more orthodox understanding of the faith.

If you always equate liberalism with heterodoxy, you will find yourself painted into a corner.  Read John Henry Cardinal Newman.  In order to come to the orthodox view that he eventually came to, he was very liberal in his thought, however, as he was becoming Catholic, he moved through conservatism into orthodoxy.

A strong Catholic University doesn't have to be conservative, it has to be orthodox.  Liberalism can find a place, if it is authentic and serving the greater good.

Don't get caught in the liberal=heterodox trap.  It is false and it is an inauthentic viewpoint.
[right][snapback]832267[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
When "liberal" is used to refer to Catholics, it is often used to mean "heterodox." For instance, when one says "liberal Catholics," it is often taken to mean those who reject the Church's teaching on various moral and doctrinal matters. That's more what I was thinking here.

[quote]One of the things that should not be taken away though is the liberal aspect of college.  One of the reasons that I am so strong in my faith and one of the reasons that I am such a strong debater is that I had to fight for my Catholic identity.[/quote]
This is what becomes unclear - you seem to imply here that liberalism is something that has to be fought against to maintain a Catholic identity.

And you also seem to imply that the college should be "liberal" (whatever you mean by that), as though a college being conservative makes the educational experience somehow inferior.

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Dec 20 2005, 08:40 PM']When "liberal" is used to refer to Catholics, it is often used to mean "heterodox."  For instance, when one says "liberal Catholics," it is often taken to mean those who reject the Church's teaching on various moral and doctrinal matters.  That's more what I was thinking here.
This is what becomes unclear - you seem to imply here that liberalism is something that has to be fought against to maintain a Catholic identity.

And you also seem to imply that the college should be "liberal" (whatever you mean by that), as though a college being conservative makes the educational experience somehow inferior.
[right][snapback]832308[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
When "liberal" is used in terms of education, it means studying a wide array of subjects. Frex, "Liberal Arts" is not about politics at all.

[Socrates]

[quote name='philothea' date='Dec 20 2005, 08:50 PM']When "liberal" is used in terms of education, it means studying a wide array of subjects.  Frex, "Liberal Arts" is not about politics at all.
[right][snapback]832312[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
I went to a liberal arts college and am well aware of what this means. While it was a liberal arts college, it was very conservative.

It's just that in the current vernacular, when one says a school is "liberal," it usually means in the current political/religious/cultural sense of the word.

[qfnol31]

[quote]I love UD and UD profs! :[/quote]

What about people like me or my roommates!? That's it, no more tea or alcohol for you!

[quote name='Socrates' date='Dec 20 2005, 09:58 PM']I went to a liberal arts college and am well aware of what this means.  While it was a liberal arts college, it was very conservative.

It's just that in the current vernacular, when one says a school is "liberal" it usually means in the current political/religious/cultural sense of the word.
[right][snapback]832322[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I go to a liberal arts college as well. I think that that's a better term to use than simply [i]liberal[/i].

Since we're on the subject, I think that liberal arts are extremely important.

My doctor and I got into a discussion the other day on this and he wishes he had studied philosophy in college before his med school days. I thought it was great!

[TheoGrad07]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 20 2005, 09:03 PM']What about people like me or my roommates!?  That's it, no more tea or alcohol for you! 
I go to a liberal arts college as well.  I think that that's a better term to use than simply [i]liberal[/i].

Since we're on the subject, I think that liberal arts are extremely important.

  My doctor and I got into a discussion the other day on this and he wishes he had studied philosophy in college before his med school days.  I thought it was great! 
[right][snapback]832326[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


Don't yell at me, Zach ... I love you too, and your roommates!

Oh yeah! All for liberal arts! I don't know how else I could learn to think without them ... Everything we think in our post-modern society is someway connected to everything that's come before ... it's so much fun getting to know it all! Or trying to get to know some of it ... :

[lifescanticle]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Dec 20 2005, 07:16 PM']Since we've recently had debates about homeschooling and boarding school . .

The question is:
What tends to produce the strongest Catholics:
Colleges with a strongly Catholic identity and orthodox Catholic teaching (such as Christendom, FUS, St. Thomas Aquinas, etc.)?
or secular or largely secularized colleges (often largely at odds with the Catholic Faith)?

(This question is basically aimed at Catholics.  And please don't turn it into an argument about which Catholic school is best or "most Catholic")
[right][snapback]832182[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I would think that attending a school that has a strong Catholic identity would produce a stronger Catholic. The presence of the Eucharist on campus and the ready available religious would be very supportive to those students who torn between secular society and Catholism

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Dec 20 2005, 06:25 PM']This thread was inspired by some posts in the past to the effect that Catholics needed to go to a school where they would be taught opposing viewpoints, or that going to "conservative" Catholic colleges breeds "intellectual stagnation" and the like.

Personally, I think the facts attest otherwise.
[right][snapback]832191[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

An orthodox Catholic College would not produce intellectual stagnation, because the material would hopefuly be presented in a fair light.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Dec 20 2005, 08:48 PM']I graduated from the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, MN.
[right][snapback]832268[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


Thats the EXACT program that i am debating about. i have been in email dialogue with Dr. Paul Wojda for a few months now. He is trying to design a joint program of catholic studies and theology(through St. Paul seminary school of divinity) thats cool its the same place as you.

I know Dr. Joey is trying to get into the catholic studies program right now. He is finishing his last semister of school for his undergrad. I still have a year or so left, but Im in, I know too many names. hehe

[track2004]

Regular colleges. Typically they have better overall programs (though if you want a theology degree by all means, a Catholic college). They are also cheaper (well public ones anyway). They also prepare a kid for what the real world is like. Catholics don't live in a little bubble, we have to "live in the world but not be of it".

[Colleen]

[quote name='track2004' date='Dec 21 2005, 11:31 AM']Regular colleges.  Typically they have better overall programs (though if you want a theology degree by all means, a Catholic college).  They are also cheaper (well public ones anyway).  They also prepare a kid for what the real world is like.  Catholics don't live in a little bubble, we have to "live in the world but not be of it".
[right][snapback]832798[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
It's funny you say that, because from my experience, most people I know who attend Catholic colleges don't live in a bubble. Rather, their experiences (both academic and social) at their college prepares them for the real world. They are well aware of what the real world is like!!

And yet at my secular college, I have met so many people (students and professors) who seem to live on their own little respective planets. I'm not saying all, but a lot.

And actually, Catholic schools tend to have more rigorous curricula (hey, even the Jesuit colleges are tough!) and those schools tend to be more prestigious than public ones. . . . Also, depending on scholarships, financial aid, and years of programs, a private school can end up costing the same or less than a public school.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Dec 20 2005, 08:43 PM']So do you think it better to go to a college where there is a lot of liberal heterodox teaching?

This only really seems to work for people who go in already very strong in their faith.  If you look at the overwhelming statistics of those who lose their faith after attending liberal "Catholic" colleges . . .
[right][snapback]832210[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well, I suppose my experience is at odds with those statistics. I didn't lose my faith at a liberal heterodox college, I gained faith. I came to college a militant, anti-Catholic, atheist Planned Parenthood spy. I chose Goucher precisely because of its liberal climate. But immersed in this environment, I had a profound conversion experience as I realized how stupid my anti-Catholic beliefs were and how true Catholicism was, because I saw some strong Catholics living out their faith in an authentic way in a campus that went against everything the Church stood for. I guess you could say the odds were against me, but that was where I came to faith. I know other people at my college that converted to Catholicism there as well, and I think that the hostile learning environment has helped us all build character.

As I just finished school, I can see how God used an anti-Catholic ultra-secular college to draw me closer to HIm. It was His Plan and I think that anyone coming out of that college MORE Catholic than they were before is a testimony to the power of God.

That being said, would I recommend my alma mater as a place to help someone grow in their faith? No. If I had high-school-aged children, I'd probably encourage them to go to a strong Catholic college like St. Thomas Aquinas, FUS, Christendom or Catholic University.

In my experience, strong Catholic colleges and strong secular colleges can both produce strong Catholics. But there are also "phishy" colleges that call themselves Catholic but the professors want women priests, and the students want gay dorms. I wouldn't send my kids there.

If i were to go to grad school (when pigs fly! : ) I'd probably choose a strong Catholic college, as I feel I've been tested enough.