a couples question

[franciscanheart]

i feel like im in the debate table....

all the people agreeing that age differences are important seem to be the ones who married someone close to their age and the others, who have fallen for someone not close to their age at all.

i feel a lot of defensiveness here. i dont think anyone is trying to say that yalls love isnt real and that it cant work, but that in a lot of cases, it doesnt. and we must remember that a lot of perceptions are perceptions of people who arent devoutly Catholic and who arent looking for a good father or mother for their children. a lot of this negative thinking comes from people like Hue Hefner and the like. not everyone out there is as cool as the people here.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Dec 21 2005, 12:16 PM']i feel like im in the debate table....

all the people agreeing that age differences are important seem to be the ones who married someone close to their age and the others, who have fallen for someone not close to their age at all.

i feel a lot of defensiveness here. i dont think anyone is trying to say that yalls love isnt real and that it cant work, but that in a lot of cases, it doesnt. and we must remember that a lot of perceptions are perceptions of people who arent devoutly Catholic and who arent looking for a good father or mother for their children. a lot of this negative thinking comes from people like Hue Hefner and the like. not everyone out there is as cool as the people here.
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:applause:

[Myles Domini]

[quote]QUOTE(Deeds @ Dec 21 2005, 11:31 AM)Oh but I do think Mary-Kathryn made some very good points...



I don't.
The only meaningful points that I got out of all that was that if someone isn't ready for marriage they shouldn't marry. Or if a relationship is unhealthy (as in the case of domineering or stifling) it probably shouldn't be pursued.
These were generally the underlying assumptions of the statements made, and these are largely extrinsic to the question of age. Such matters are ultimately to be judged and discerned on the level of the particular, and sweeping generalizations in this regard are just a bit unfair and possibly offensive.
But I suppose I have a unique experience in that most of my friends are married couples, and they all married quite young by general standards. I think the idea of a person leaving father and mother to cleave to their spouse is something very beautiful and perhaps ideal. My sister was 17 when she married and I had the privilege of watching her flourish. She has such a beautiful family. I just resist the pervasive cultural cynicism with regard to wedlock. A shared vision, good intentions, proper discernment and of course shared values are far more essential and important to me then superficial and cynical generalizations which are utterly foreign to my experience.

If I had a daughter who was a young woman, I would prefer the 35 year old Catholic gentleman to the 19 year old Abercrombie and Fitch guy.
There are plenty of generalizations and superficial stereotypes that can be thrown in the direction of the younger guys. Either way, the important questions as I see them aren't essentially about age, they're about character, values, intention, compatibility, etc.. [/quote]

As always L_D proves himself a foundation of wisdom. Marriage is an icon of Christ and the Church a window into heaven which realises one of the dominant scriptural images of God's relationship with his covenant partner. So long as the two spouses are committed to showing forth this truth by making the teachings of Ephesians 5 a reality to all who encounter them I see little problem in an age gap.

INXC
Myles

INXC
Myles

[qfnol31]

[quote name='TheoGrad07' date='Dec 21 2005, 11:23 AM']Hmmmm ....    .... I think I sense contradiction coming from you!
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[quote name='Deeds' date='Dec 21 2005, 12:31 PM']My mum is over a year older than my dad and I had a great aunt who was married for over 50 years to a man 7 years younger than her so : to whoever said the man should be older.
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My girlfriend's a special case. : (She's older!)

[Deeds]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 21 2005, 06:08 PM']I don't.
The only meaningful points that I got out of all that was that if someone isn't ready for marriage they shouldn't marry.
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I'd read it again if I were you because I got much more out of it than that.

The fact is, you do have to be particularly careful when there is a big age difference. Some older men take advantage of younger women, some are only attracted to youthful good looks, some are too immature to have relationships with women their own age. Of course these are generalisations, but it just means that you have to ask certain questions to make sure that the relationship is on a proper footing. They're not "superficial and cynical" because it would be foolhardy in the extreme to ignore them - it's precisely about ensuring that intentions are good!

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Deeds' date='Dec 21 2005, 12:23 PM']I'd read it again if I were you because I got much more out of it than that.

The fact is, you do have to be particularly careful when there is a big age difference. Some older men take advantage of younger women, some are only attracted to youthful good looks, some are too immature to have relationships with women their own age. Of course these are generalisations, but it just means that you have to ask certain questions to make sure that the relationship is on a proper footing. They're not "superficial and cynical" because it would be foolhardy in the extreme to ignore them - it's precisely about ensuring that intentions are good!
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Right, but these are reducible to problems with intention, values and the like. They aren't intrinsic to age and to suggest that they are is biased and unfair. It's like applying a racial bias to the question of relationships.

That was my point. The criticisms made have nothing to do with age difference per se, but are just statements about relationship flaws that are common despite age difference. And as I said, in my personal experience, in the relationships I've been around in my life, there is no basis for viewing age difference with such suspicion so I can't accept the idea that this is a fair characterization. The questions asked ought to be asked regardless of age difference, they are just basic relationship questions. It is assuming that age difference is in itself something bad. I tend toward the opposite perspective.

[Myles Domini]

[quote name='Deeds' date='Dec 21 2005, 06:23 PM']I'd read it again if I were you because I got much more out of it than that.

The fact is, you do have to be particularly careful when there is a big age difference. Some older men take advantage of younger women, some are only attracted to youthful good looks, some are too immature to have relationships with women their own age. Of course these are generalisations, but it just means that you have to ask certain questions to make sure that the relationship is on a proper footing. They're not "superficial and cynical" because it would be foolhardy in the extreme to ignore them - it's precisely about ensuring that intentions are good!
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I agree with the thrust of your post but I see no contradiction with L_D's point either. Falling foul of all the checks on your list is an illustration of being unprepared for marriage. Only those who are willing to co-operate with the grace of God to make their marriage into an icon of the Lamb and His Bride to the world around them and, of course, to themselves should embrace the call to this vocation. This fact stands whether or not there is two years difference between the spouses or, daresay, twenty two.

INXC
Myles

Edited December 21, 2005 by Myles

[Deeds]

[quote name='Myles' date='Dec 21 2005, 06:29 PM']I agree with the thrust of your post but I see no contradiction with L_D's point either.Falling foul of all the checks on your list is an illustration of being unprepared for marriage. Only those who are willing to co-operate with the grace of God to make their marriage into an icon of the Lamb and His Bride to the world around them and, of course, to themselves should embrace the call to this vocation.

INXC
Myles
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I don't see a contradiction with LD's post either, but apparently he thinks there is one...

LD, I didn't say anything was [i]intrinsic[/i] with an age difference, just [i]more likely[/i]. Prudence is a virtue. Also, you'll notice that I said my boyfriend is 7 years older, so obviously I don't have a problem with age differences in a relationship.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 21 2005, 01:29 PM']Right, but these are reducible to problems with intention, values and the like. They aren't intrinsic to age and to suggest that they are is biased and unfair. It's like applying a racial bias to the question of relationships.

That was my point. The criticisms made have nothing to do with age difference per se, but are just statements about relationship flaws that are common despite age difference. And as I said, in my personal experience, in the relationships I've been around in my life, there is no basis for viewing age difference with such suspicion so I can't accept the idea that this is a fair characterization. [b]The questions asked ought to be asked regardless of age difference, they are just basic relationship questions.[/b] It is assuming that age difference is in itself something bad. I tend toward the opposite perspective.
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i agree.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Deeds' date='Dec 21 2005, 12:35 PM']LD, I didn't say anything was [i]intrinsic[/i] with an age difference, just [i]more likely[/i].[right][snapback]832923[/snapback][/right]
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Yes, and that's precisely the point that makes me raise an eyebrow. I'd like to see a proof of that bias. I can think of a rationale for holding that such a scenario would be more likely to succeed and be a healthy relationship. I don't like how an older man being interested in a younger woman is characterized as some kind of dirty old man or something.
The tone of certain posts on this thread assume that there is some intrinsic connection between age difference as unhealthy intentions. As far as I can tell this is little more than a biased assumption. My experience is quite to the contrary. And even if there was statistical evidence to back this up (which I've never heard of), the same can be said for a lot of racial prejudice (look at violent crime statistics for minorities). I would still argue that it would be unfair to approach a particular relationship with this kind of thinking. But of course, I'm not convinced that it has an objective basis at all.

Oh, and I wasn't thinking of your posts specifically Deeds.

[franciscanheart]

if i remember right, it is human nature to fear what we cannot understand.

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Deeds' date='Dec 21 2005, 01:23 PM']I'd read it again if I were you because I got much more out of it than that.

The fact is, you do have to be particularly careful when there is a big age difference. Some older men take advantage of younger women, some are only attracted to youthful good looks, some are too immature to have relationships with women their own age. Of course these are generalisations, but it just means that you have to ask certain questions to make sure that the relationship is on a proper footing. They're not "superficial and cynical" because it would be foolhardy in the extreme to ignore them - it's precisely about ensuring that intentions are good!
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That is what I have been trying to convey. Ask the necessary questions. The "older" men you described above--[I am several years older than that 35 years old ]-- that have problems with maturity, taking advantage of young women etc...do exist. As a parent I have to raise my daughter to respect herself and to take care of herself. I also would love her enough to ask the tough unpopular questions. Even in the face of her hurt or anger.

In the end, marriage does not mean that all your trials and difficulties will be swept away, or that being a good, practicing Catholic in a marriage means you'll never experience problems. So don't believe that just because he's [or she] a good faithful Catholic that you have "Mr. Right" [or Miss. Right] automatically in the bag. Ask the questions, go slow, and get to know. And don't forget the priest.

Whoever said it, I agree. I didn't think it would turn into a debate. I'm done!

Have a holy Christmas all!

[scardella]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Dec 21 2005, 01:29 PM']if i remember right, it is human nature to fear what we cannot understand.

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Maybe that's why I fear women

Maybe this should be moved to the debate table.

[zunshynn]

13 years isn't necessarily too much... but so he's 22 and 13 years older than she is? SHE'S NINE?! no nine year old girl is ready to get married, least of all to someone in his twenties...

[Lil Red]

no, she's 22.