N/A Gone Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 (edited) I was in a debate in which I got upset. Where the person said that the "catholics ignore scripture, they just debate philosophy instead of going back to the scripture because the scripture has been dealt with by the church, thus they dont teach it" The person is in the process of converting, but he has been taught scripture very well and is very ecucated on it. So when he sees theologians not even using scripture it seems disrespectful to him. -what are your thoughts? What if scripture contridicted with a philosophy? How many of you actually use scripture in a debate? cause I know protestants in debate look much different than catholics because protestants argue with scripture, yet from out expertience catholics dont seem to. its almost like the philosophy has a hierarchy over the scripture. This is a huge problem for protestants in how they view catholics because they assume you dont use the bible. So when an issue seems contridictory to the scripture arguing a philosophy doesnt have the same authority.. know what i mean? Edited December 18, 2005 by Revprodeji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 Rev, you should read John Paul II's Fides et Ratio - On Faith and Reason. The point is that true faith and true reason do not contradict, precisely because Truth does not contradict Truth. Catholics use scripture in debate and discussion constantly. Catholics use philosophy in debate and discussion constantly. If we are faithful to the Magisterium in our use of either, we will never be led into contradiction. Your Brother In Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 The two go hand in hand, an educated Catholic can use both philosophy, tradition, and scripture to defend the faith. Maybe one of the reasons Protestants rely on scripture more is because its all thats really authoritive in the Protestant world? Catholics can use the teachings of the Church since we think the church is infalliable. Just an idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted December 18, 2005 Share Posted December 18, 2005 I can't really choose. Both 1 and 2 are correct... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Dec 18 2005, 04:36 PM']Rev, you should read John Paul II's Fides et Ratio - On Faith and Reason. The point is that true faith and true reason do not contradict, precisely because Truth does not contradict Truth. Catholics use scripture in debate and discussion constantly. Catholics use philosophy in debate and discussion constantly. If we are faithful to the Magisterium in our use of either, we will never be led into contradiction. [/quote] I agree. The two are not mutually exclusive, but compliment each other. Two truths cannot contradict eachother so one may use both and... If he/she truly believes that Catholics do not use or read Scripture send him our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Prove 'em wrong and use Scripture in your debating! Remember, how you debate depends on who you are debating. (It's best to use scripture heavily when debating sola-scriptura protestants, but one cannot rely on authority of scripture when debating atheists or agnostics.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Augustine had fun using philosophy and then showing how the Bible took the philosophy and expanded. (Of course the Bible probably didn't really "take" the philosophy per se, but rather it was contained within the Holy Writ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 he is was making the claims from reading thru many of the debate threads on this site.. as well as seeing catholics in his regular life.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 18 2005, 06:51 PM']he is was making the claims from reading thru many of the debate threads on this site.. as well as seeing catholics in his regular life.. [right][snapback]830087[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sola scriptura protestants sometimes want to demand the debate be on their own terms - any appeal to anything outside of Scripture is considered "unbiblical" and off-limits. This lacks intellectual honesty, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Well, what if there is a teaching in scripture..yet a philosophy disagrees with it, thus we interpret the scripture in a less-than-natural light so it works with scripture... That perhaps is the hierarchy of interpretation maybe.. I must admit, as a revert it is weird to debate without scripture. No one else uses it, and it seems to have almost no strength. Just a new arena I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I study philosophy to see the link between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 18 2005, 07:01 PM']Well, what if there is a teaching in scripture..yet a philosophy disagrees with it, thus we interpret the scripture in a less-than-natural light so it works with scripture... That perhaps is the hierarchy of interpretation maybe.. I must admit, as a revert it is weird to debate without scripture. No one else uses it, and it seems to have almost no strength. Just a new arena I guess. [right][snapback]830103[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I know what you mean. I have used scripture in debating here a few times, and it gets totally ignored if not outright contradicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 18 2005, 07:01 PM']Well, what if there is a teaching in scripture..yet a philosophy disagrees with it, thus we interpret the scripture in a less-than-natural light so it works with scripture... That perhaps is the hierarchy of interpretation maybe.. I must admit, as a revert it is weird to debate without scripture. No one else uses it, and it seems to have almost no strength. Just a new arena I guess. [right][snapback]830103[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddieloudog Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 We all must study scripture in order to incorporate it in debate. It is our foundation and our duty as Christians. Our Catholicity is from scripture and to not know it is just as bad as not knowing our Catholic Faith. besides, there is nothing a Bible thumping person hates more to run into on a sunny Sunday morning than a Catholic who knows Scripture and will debate using it! Read the Bible, it is our birthright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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