Laudate_Dominum Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 [quote name='crazymaine catholic' date='Dec 16 2005, 01:31 PM']gotta love pirates of the carribean...that's the reference right? [right][snapback]828400[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Aye, that it is mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 [quote name='crazymaine catholic' date='Dec 16 2005, 09:34 AM']but no one deserves death. [/quote] Oh, I definitely think some people [b]deserve[/b] it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazymaine catholic Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 this isn't meant to be argumentative. i'm just curious for your justifications on why some people deserve death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolou Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 [quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Dec 16 2005, 02:48 PM']Oh, I definitely think some people [b]deserve[/b] it [right][snapback]828421[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't think any person can be the judge of whether another person deserves to die or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazymaine catholic Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 [quote name='Carolou' date='Dec 16 2005, 04:18 PM']I don't think any person can be the judge of whether another person deserves to die or not... [right][snapback]828461[/snapback][/right] [/quote] yeah, that's where i'm coming from. that's why i want to know why some people do deserve death. i'm open to listen to other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 [quote name='Carolou' date='Dec 16 2005, 02:18 PM']I don't think any person can be the judge of whether another person deserves to die or not... [right][snapback]828461[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The state can, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazymaine catholic Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 stupid states. what do they know anyway? : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolou Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 16 2005, 03:35 PM']The state can, however. [right][snapback]828478[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't think they have a right to, though. That's my opinion. State is people..just with more power over others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 [quote]2266 The State's effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. the primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.67 2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor...[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazymaine catholic Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 (edited) but how do we determine who is worthy of the death penalty? how can we tell who will remain enough of a threat to human life that the only way to preserve life is by death? oh yeah, and is that from the catechism? i remember reading stuff like this in there. Edited December 16, 2005 by crazymaine catholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 It is in fact from the Catechism. It is again up to the state to decide who's a threat to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolou Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 darn it. Still..I have a hard time accepting that it's okay for a person to decide that it's okay to have someone killed. Even if they are part of the state..doesn't make them not human anymore. They cast a judgement that is Gods alone to cast. How does someone know that another person would kill another person, even if they have killed in the past? They don't know. Only God does. So, no person on this earth can say they know for a fact that someone else needs to die in order to keep others safe. *sighs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazymaine catholic Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 the issue is that God granted men the ability to bring justice here on earth. it's difficult to accept that now, because so many judges and justice systems are corrupt. that makes it really hard to tell who is using the death penalty as an excuse, and who is using it with extreme discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 In Merrie Olde England, the penalty for Treason was to be hanged, drawn and quartered. I won't go into the details of what that entailed here, but needless to say, it's not for the feint of heart. (And now, people throw a fit if someone is given a lethal injection!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 16 2005, 04:40 PM']2266 The State's effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. the primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.67 2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor... [right][snapback]828486[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ...authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person. [b]Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which [u]the state[/u] has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."[/b] Consistency is the key. An important part of the Catechism was left out of that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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