Home Schooling

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Dec 14 2005, 07:14 AM']i dont know what it is about the lockers... i never got shoved into any
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Apparently, it makes you a better person.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 14 2005, 09:21 AM']Apparently, it makes you a better person. 
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So I've heard. I don't think I ever got shoved into any. Although I once had a locker next to a really icky guy ... he constantly harrassed me and was very rude in many of the comments he made. I was kinda scared of him.

[franciscanheart]

i think i tried to get into one by myself once but the door never closed.... i think i shoved someone else in one but its because she asked me to.... silly girl didnt take out the books first!

[Carrie]

I'm glad I wasn't homeschooled because I don't think my mother was cut out for it. She has very little patience, which would have created a bad learning environment for me. Also, like Abby, I was competitive when it came to grades.

I'm glad that I had to learn to adjust to being around other students who I didn't necessarily like or get along with because I have to deal with those things on an everyday basis at work. I certainly don't like everyone I work with (and I'm sure that not everyone likes me either ) but I've learned how to adjust to situations like that through school.

I liked going to school everyday. I liked rushing to class, having lunch with friends, going to school assemblies, working on the yearbook together, getting into trouble whispering in the library, and having lots of different teachers.

Some of those teachers had huge influences on my life and I'm very lucky to have known them.

I was never shoved into a locker either.

That said, I certainly admire those who homeschool. I can't even begin to imagine the patience, time, and dedication it takes.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' date='Dec 14 2005, 07:57 AM']i think i tried to get into one by myself once but the door never closed....[right][snapback]824842[/snapback][/right]
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You cannot make yourself into a better person by shoving yourself into a locker. That blessing must be bestowed upon you by someone else. Nice try though.

[homeschoolmom]

And now back to

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Dec 14 2005, 08:34 AM']I'm glad I wasn't homeschooled because I don't think my mother was cut out for it.  She has very little patience, which would have created a bad learning environment for me.  Also, like Abby, I was competitive when it came to grades. 

I'm glad that I had to learn to adjust to being around other students who I didn't necessarily like or get along with because I have to deal with those things on an everyday basis at work.  I certainly don't like everyone I work with (and I'm sure that not everyone likes me either ) but I've learned how to adjust to situations like that through school.

I liked going to school everyday.  I liked rushing to class, having lunch with friends, going to school assemblies, working on the yearbook together, getting into trouble whispering in the library, and having lots of different teachers. 

Some of those teachers had huge influences on my life and I'm very lucky to have known them.

I was never shoved into a locker either. 

That said, I certainly admire those who homeschool.  I can't even begin to imagine the patience, time, and dedication it takes.
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i agree. i like having those huge yearbooks with lots of people you dont know but even more you do. i love all the end of year scribblings in your yearbook and the stupid pictures you took in the cafeteria that you dont show your parents until the next year when theres an even stupider one. and you can say "but look.. this one isnt so bad!" and i love all the different teachers and counselors you can compliment a ridiculous amount. i love making teaches blush. its so funny. and i love the adrenaline rush when you know youre going to be late and the teacher is going to look at you sternly when you walk in the door. and i love seeing kids get on their cell phones in the middle of lecture like its no big deal and watch the teachers just pull out their hair while still laughing. love that. young teachers are awesome. i love the class interaction and all the fun times. i was never homeschooled but im glad. i liked my public school education. :

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 14 2005, 08:39 AM']You cannot make yourself into a better person by shoving yourself into a locker. That blessing must be bestowed upon you by someone else. Nice try though.
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it was worth a shot.

[dicallidra]

[quote name='rkwright' date='Dec 13 2005, 09:55 PM']I went to catholic highschool, and have a cousin who is being homeschooled right now.  The families have gotten in some arguments over all of it... Like you said hes not isolated, and plays sports and does youth group... but him, and the other homeschooled kids I've met (in highschool I haven't met any while at college) just have something different socially about them.

Here are some things I really enjoyed at my highschool that my cousin being homeschooled will never experience.

1- Friday night football games.  Even in the snow cheering on a terrible high school football team because its the only time you can really hang out with your friends outside of class when you can't drive.
2- School dances, from freshman mixers to senior prom...
3- Lockers, the rush of trying to get to class on time, talking with friends in the halls
4- Those teachers that everyone hates but everyone has.  Or those 'yearly' projects; my freshman year it was the latin project, senior year the dreaded 25 page economics project
5- Sports, going to state, going to nationals with a close group of friends, letter jackets
6- Mass for 1,200 kids. amazing
7- School pep rallys...sometimes lame sometimes a lot of fun

Hes not going to have the bad days I had either; feeling lonely sometimes, having too much work and sports interfering, getting involved in a nasty food fight!!

All in all it was worth every second of it and I feel sad that he'll miss it.
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I feel i must add to the list of things he will be missing out on

8. all the drugs being dealt
9. the sexual promiscuity
10. Political correctness to the max
11. and last but not least the school shootings

Fun stuff!

[Iacobus]

[quote name='dicallidra' date='Dec 14 2005, 12:32 PM']I feel i must add to the list of things he will be missing out on 

8. all the drugs being dealt
9. the sexual promiscuity
10. Political correctness to the max
11. and last but not least the school shootings

Fun stuff!
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There aren't that many drugs being dealt in public schools. Also, the "druggies" tend not to bother the other students and the real bad ones drop out.

The sexual promiscuity? I couldn't tell you for the life of me where the majority of the students in my highschool were sexually active or not. The vast majority of students are not sexually active, just like the vast majority of college students don't binge drink (the real number is around 25%, Grinnell is a bit higher with 33%). It is all a matter of how it is protrayed. College life isn't like the movie "Road Trip" nor is high school like "American Pie."

The political correctness? You are living in GOP la-la land. I go to one of the most liberal colleges in the US, look up Grinnell College if you don't think I am telling the true, and the vast majority of profs are not PC and don't want to be PC. The students aren't either. We had an editiorial in our student newspaper a few weeks ago, reproduced below.

[quote]Real academic freedom

Dilara yarbrough '06

At Grinnell, most students take at least a few discussion-based courses. For optimum learning in discussion courses, students and professors should be free to say, read and think what they want, as long as they do not infringe on another person's rights.

The American Association of University Professors states that professors are responsible for presenting their own viewpoints in class, prioritizing the "truth as they see it" rather than mythical objective or 'balanced' knowledge.1 But classes at Grinnell are about more than listening to lectures. We learn a lot not only from professors but from each other.

There are some classroom behaviors that impede learning, however, and although we are all free to engage in them, I recommend that we stop. I'm not talking about the shameless attempts to participate in discussions when you haven't done the reading (although this should only be done during hell week, when no one else has read either).

Consider the following scenario: You are sitting in class and miraculously have completed all of the reading. You are eager to ask questions and express your opinion, but scared because you read about a controversial issue and you don't want to be misunderstood. Do you censor yourself and attempt to be politically correct? Do you sit silently, afraid to offend? Do you turn to classmates who you think will have better insight based on something you know about them? Do you blurt out the first thing that comes to mind?

In an academic setting, there is no such thing as "common sense." Ways of expressing ourselves, being understood, and understanding others are learned in the classroom. Students should not avoid talking about controversial issues because they are afraid to offend someone. If we avoid controversy, we leave the classroom with misconceptions intact.

Learning requires attention to conflict, learning about historical conflict and difference and learning to interact with current conflicts and difference. The times I have learned most have been times I was most uncomfortable and forced to re-evaluate things I previously held to be true. Arguments during class allow discussants to clarify their positions and generally learn to express themselves to others.

A conservative organization with an ironic name, Students for Academic Freedom, claims that students need to be protected from challenges to their personal beliefs in the classroom. SAF criticizes what it calls "liberal bias" in the classroom in order to promote an agenda of limiting free discussion and exchange of ideas.2 Conservative activist David Horowitz has spearheaded a national movement to legislate the "Academic Bill of Rights" he created to ensure what he calls "political diversity" at the expense of freedom to think and express ideas. Horowitz's followers decry 'indoctrination' even as they hypocritically try to create a situation in which administrators rather than students and professors, experts in their areas, would dictate classroom discussion. Horowitz co-opts the rhetoric of "diversity" and "equality" to mandate that all professors teach right-wing political ideologies they disagree with and avoid "controversy." This bill to limit student learning has already passed in 16 states.

Rather than censoring unsettling ideas, students should interrogate the history behind controversial topics. Controversy in an academic setting can be politically charged without degenerating into partisan legislative battle. Avoiding academic debate means avoiding learning.

Some of the most controversial topics in my experience at Grinnell have been racial epithets or canonized "great thinkers" in one area who hold prejudices in another. Thankfully, Grinnell students are still allowed to raise these pressing issues in college classes. In one of my English classes last year, the professor asked for volunteers to read aloud a poem that repeated the word "nice black man." Before we got into the poem, we had a student-initiated discussion about the politics of saying the word aloud in a classroom setting.

We came to a consensus that excising the word from our discussion would mean ignoring its historical as well as literary significance and were able to move on to discuss how form and diction (including the word "nice black man") informed meaning. Although almost everyone in the class seemed to feel uncomfortable, many students and the professor said they were glad to have had the conversation. Why? In the case of this specific example, students are often reluctant to say racial or other epithets at the risk of invoking the violence associated with these words. In English classes, it is often necessary to articulate the words in order to analyze the concepts they represent.

This specific example evinces on a more general level that students should encourage discussions of the plethora of "difficult" or "taboo" topics across disciplines when they come up in assigned reading. It is counterproductive to jump right into these topics without first establishing common theoretical ground for discussion and worse to avoid discussion all together.

So we've ruled out silence, censorship and political correctness as viable options to solve the problem of controversy. We are talking with our classmates and taking into account their perspectives. But creating an environment in which classmates are free to speak is not the same as asking them to speak from a certain voice or perspective. Students should not make assumptions about another?s life experiences, knowledge or standpoint based on ascription to a particular social group. Singling out a student to speak as the representative of a group to which he or she belongs is never a good idea.

Students may volunteer information about their personal experiences as members of particular groups but should never be asked to speak as representatives of an entire people. This sort of tokenism perpetuates the misconception that there is a monolithic "black culture," "male perspective," "disabled experience," "gay identity," etc. when in fact people who are black, men, homosexual or have disabilities also have a multiplicity of perspectives on any given issue. Asking in class that someone act as spokesperson for a racial, ethnic, gender, sexual orientation, religious, ability or other group is reductive and detrimental to learning.

Grinnell College's mission statement cites "free inquiry" as a priority. As organizations like Students for Academic Freedom try to erode academic freedom, Grinnell students should seek more actively to protect it. We must also recognize the position of controversy in the ideology of "Academic Freedom."

What is the role of conflict in learning? How can we respect our classmates each time we enter an academic discussion? SAF claims that controversy infringes on students' rights to their own beliefs. In fact, embracing propaganda or the monolithic perspectives of superficial political correctness, relying on tokenism and avoiding debates infringe on students' right to learn. We have the right to challenge one another's beliefs as well as to change or find new evidence for our existing opinions.

(Footnotes)

1 See the "AAUP Statement on the Academic Bill of Rights" and "Handout for Faculty: Academic Bill of Rights Coming to Your Campus Soon" at [url="http://www.aaup.org"]http://www.aaup.org[/url].

2 See "Women's Studies Hunted for Liberal Bias" 08-30-05 by Rachel Corbett at [url="http://www.womensenews.org"]http://www.womensenews.org[/url][/quote]

As for school shootings, you are far more likely to die in a swimming pool from having the fiddler pull you down then to die in a school shooting.

[Ash Wednesday]

I don't have kids, but it would seem to me that the most important thing here is active parenting. Whether the child is at home, in a Catholic school, or public school.

I think what is best for the child depends on the child, and the parents' abilities and resources.

I guess letterman's jackets, pep rallys, dances, and football games are good for that good ol' jock-worshippin' school heirarchy that we've got going on... but not every student is into that sort of thing.

Where I was from there was no Catholic school in the area. There was public school, home school, or alternative school -- which I think worked nicely for kids and misfits that weren't into that whole jock rock social thing.

[Socrates]

While homeschooling can baused like anything else, and there are good schools out there, my main points were against those who see homeschooling as intrinsically inferior, and claim that homeschooling produces a bunch of intellectual, social, and physical weaklings who are unable to cope with the "real world."

Recent "Apprentice" candidate Jennifer Murphy (who was in the same college as me for a year) was homeschooled. She became the youngest manager of Quest Dex at 23, and founded and serves as CEO of her own real-estate company in 20s. (Yeah, she got fired by Trump, but that's beside the point). [url="http://www.nbc.com/The_Apprentice_4/candidates/bio_jenniferm.shtml"](Biography Here)[/url]

(So much for homeschoolers being unable to succeed in the real world!)

One of my brother's best friends who was homeschooled was valedictorian of his college class and is now on his way to getting a doctorate at Notre Dame.

(So much for homeschoolers lacking academic skills!)

I know many homeschooled people who are now productive, well-adjusted adults. (Yeah, I'm the exception - but no one can say I'm incapable of standing up to radically opposing viewpoints.)


And, btw, Iacabus, your consistantly snotty "elitist" attitude toward conservatives, even if intended to be "humorous," comes off really bad, and does not behoove you. You might want to consider dropping it.

[photosynthesis]

I am not married and I don't have any kids, but if I were, I don't think I'd homeschool my kids. Why? Because I want my children to get a GOOD education. I'm sure I could teach elementary school subjects well, and I know I could teach high school literature, history, social studies, religion, music theory etc. But I barely got through Math for Plants this semester. I want my kids to get a good education, and part of that education would involve things I don't even know, much less feel confident teaching to my kids. I want my children to have the opportunity to study physics, calculus, trigonometry, etc. I did well in high school chem but by no means would I teach it to my children! I took a few years in Spanish but I'd want my children to learn whatever foreign language they wanted. In my opinion, the school environment, while it can be hostile and competitive, is the place where children have the most opportunities to study subjects from teachers who actually know what they're doing.

It's very possible for homeschoolers to learn social skills. There's Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, youth groups, church choir, CCD, community sports teams, etc. But I know that if I didn't grow up in public school I probably wouldn't have developed interests different from that of my mother. My mom always said she never expected me to get into singing and theatre like I did. It was because it was part of the public school curriculum that I had the opportunity to be in school plays and choral performances. I'd be very sad if I didn't have that in my life now

I think I'd probably send my kids to an orthodox Catholic school where they wouldn't have to learn garbage, but they also would have the chance to do things like theatre, dance, music, art, foreign languages, and sports.

also I'm really glad I didn't homeschool because I never got along with my family so it would have been torture to be with them all the time. but I see how it works for people with normal families

[homeschoolmom]

Just as a point of informtion... I was at lunch recently with a priest friend of ours. The topic of homeschooling came up. His sister (a protestant Evangelical) homeshools. Anyway, he chuckled that we probably don't run into too many liberals since we are homeschoolers. At first I thought he was kidding. When we saw he wasn't, we explained to him that there are many, many liberal homeschoolers, too. One of the homeschooling groups we are in is a secular group and boy, oh boy... I've met all kinds of homeschoolers.

It's far from a conservative phenomonon.

[dicallidra]

[quote name='Iacobus' date='Dec 14 2005, 01:43 PM']There aren't that many drugs being dealt in public schools. Also, the "druggies" tend not to bother the other students and the real bad ones drop out. [right][snapback]825456[/snapback][/right]
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wow that's crazy, when my brother went to public high school there were hallways he would not even go down because of all the drug dealing If there isn't much drug dealing then what is the sense in bringing in the drug-sniffing dog everyweek?

[quote]The sexual promiscuity? I couldn't tell you for the life of me where the majority of the students in my highschool were sexually active or not. The vast majority of students are not sexually active, just like the vast majority of college students don't binge drink (the real number is around 25%, Grinnell is a bit higher with 33%). It is all a matter of how it is protrayed. College life isn't like the movie "Road Trip" nor is high school like "American Pie."
[/quote]

If you believe 66% of the students are not sexually active I would hardly say that that is a VAST majority. Nevertheless, I don't recall ever saying that the majority are sexually active.

[quote]The political correctness? You are living in GOP la-la land. I go to one of the most liberal colleges in the US, look up Grinnell College if you don't think I am telling the true, and the vast majority of profs are not PC and don't want to be PC. The students aren't either. We had an editiorial in our student newspaper a few weeks ago, reproduced below.
As for school shootings, you are far more likely to die in a swimming pool from having the fiddler pull you down then to die in a school shooting.
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Iacobus, please, we are talking about schools, not colleges. I believe there is significant difference. You have the capability to think about the subject material and debate with your profesors if you disagree. Elementary kids learning "good touch bad touch" cannot really voice their opinion, can they?
(Please do not refer to me as Republican, as many of my views differ with the Republican Party)

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Dec 14 2005, 06:54 PM']I am not married and I don't have any kids, but if I were, I don't think I'd homeschool my kids.  Why?  Because I want my children to get a GOOD education.  I'm sure I could teach elementary school subjects well, and I know I could teach high school literature, history, social studies, religion, music theory etc.  But I barely got through Math for Plants this semester.  I want my kids to get a good education, and part of that education would involve things I don't even know, much less feel confident teaching to my kids.  I want my children to have the opportunity to study physics, calculus, trigonometry, etc.  I did well in high school chem but by no means would I teach it to my children!  I took a few years in Spanish but I'd want my children to learn whatever foreign language they wanted.  In my opinion, the school environment, while it can be hostile and competitive, is the place where children have the most opportunities to study subjects from teachers who actually know what they're doing.
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Hi Photo,
I am bothered that you believe homeschoolers cannot get a "good" education. The vast amount of resources available to homeschooling parents is astounding. So much of it is tailored to the parent who isn't an "expert" on the material. (btw, i believe someone pointed out earlier that homeschoolers typically do better than their peers on college entrance exams, state tests...etc.) However, if you don't feel you can teach your kids highschool material, why not through junior highschool?

[quote]It's very possible for homeschoolers to learn social skills.  There's Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, youth groups, church choir, CCD, community sports teams, etc.  But I know that if I didn't grow up in public school I probably wouldn't have developed interests different from that of my mother.  My mom always said she never expected me to get into singing and theatre like I did.  It was because it was part of the public school curriculum that I had the opportunity to be in school plays and choral performances.  I'd be very sad if I didn't have that in my life now [/quote]

I don't know about other states, but here homeschoolers can participate in extracurricular school activities. My sister played sports for the highschool, i played in the junior high band, as did my brother. Perhaps it isn't possible where you are from, but there are church choirs and community choirs if thats what you really want your kids to do

[quote]I think I'd probably send my kids to an orthodox Catholic school where they wouldn't have to learn garbage, but they also would have the chance to do things like theatre, dance, music, art, foreign languages, and sports.[/quote]

And how far are you going to have to send them to find a good orthodox Catholic school? If they were abounding i believe it would solve many problems for Catholics, however, the fact is there are not many. Plus the financial burden can be impossible for some families.

[Socrates]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 14 2005, 08:03 PM']Just as a point of informtion... I was at lunch recently with a priest friend of ours. The topic of homeschooling came up. His sister (a protestant Evangelical) homeshools. Anyway, he chuckled that we probably don't run into too many liberals since we are homeschoolers. At first I thought he was kidding. When we saw he wasn't, we explained to him that there are many, many liberal homeschoolers, too. One of the homeschooling groups we are in is a secular group and boy, oh boy... I've met all kinds of homeschoolers.

It's far from a conservative phenomonon.
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The home-schooling movement actually began in the '70s largely among hippies as a kind of back-to-nature sort of thing.
In the '80s it began to gain ground among religous conservatives fed up with the secularism and liberalism of many schools.

Not all homeschooling is equal. There are good and bad ways of homeschooling.