Matty_boy Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Dec 12 2005, 05:31 PM']the man was nominated for the noble peace prize. [right][snapback]822345[/snapback][/right] [/quote] 199 people have been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize just this year. Yasser Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize and he's regarded as the godfather of modern terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Matty_boy' date='Dec 13 2005, 09:59 AM']199 people have been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize just this year. Yasser Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize and he's regarded as the godfather of modern terrorism. [right][snapback]823256[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Dec 13 2005, 11:47 AM']Where are you getting that? I'd love to read the source. [right][snapback]823242[/snapback][/right] [/quote] For some reason he thinks that he doesn't need to. Hmmmmm........ Does anyone else find this statement to be a bit irresponsible? [quote name='Brother Adam']I didn't provide any evidience that he has not given police information. I didn't cite any sources period beyond stating I've read court transcripts... That isn't the point. If I'm full of it, fine, take the time to look into it for yourself. Prove I'm full of it. [b]I'm not hear to argue about sources, its completely ignoring the point.[/b] But that's fine, join the protest and side with the baby killers![/quote] And to equate that because I am opposed to the death penalty that I am on the same side of abortionists is a red herring. You can't ask us to prove it, which I did by the way, without being willing to do it yourself. That is being uninformed. And hypocritical. You've proven nothing. Except that you are good at throwing out accusations without proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Dec 13 2005, 11:41 AM']No really? The whole point is that he isn't sorry, isn't repentant, and shows so through his own actions. If he was saved only moments before his death, God be praised. Yet all men still face judgment according to their actions. The whole point in being that he wasn't rehabilitated even after 26 years. If their was an ounce or remorse in the man the most liberal appeals court in the country would have seen to it that his sentence was commuted as they have in 133 other cases. [right][snapback]823237[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I believe that I provided a quote where the courts were calling for clemency. It was Arnold (don't wanna spell his name) who was showing no ounce of clemency. Brother Adam prove, in today's society, that the death penalty is justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Dec 13 2005, 07:55 AM']Really? There is a thing called perfect act of contrition. If he did make a perfect act of confession, then he already did that. Unfortuntately the State of California decided it was better to kill him rather than continue to rehabilitate him. [right][snapback]823153[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Deo Gratias for the Divine Law which judges the interior of each man so we don't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Dec 13 2005, 09:35 AM']And just how do you reconcile that viewpoint with the accepted Catholic catechetical teaching? And how would you answer the questions that I posed to toledo_jesus, in an informed and complete manner? Here is said teaching: (emphasis mine) [right][snapback]823228[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Actually Cam, you reconcile it easy. The Church is not against the death penalty, just holds that it is better to not kill the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 "if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means," I think this is a very big "if". Convicted murderers still manage to kill other prisoners and guards in jail, so non-lethal means do not always work. I do not see where anyone has an absolute right to life, after taking the lives of other innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='philothea' date='Dec 12 2005, 11:49 PM']Agree. More than anything, I hate the joy in vengeance that executions bring out in people. God can take care of punishing the guilty. We can take care of keeping society safe... without killing anyone. [right][snapback]822918[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I don't think everyone feels this way when an execution comes about, including those who are for it. I've never felt any joy in the executions of people, but that doesn't mean I haven't ever been for it. There is a difference, and I think it should be kept. I, too, am saddened whenever vengeance is about, and it seems to happen quite often, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasDM Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 13 2005, 10:49 AM']Actually Cam, you reconcile it easy. The Church is not against the death penalty, just holds that it is better to not kill the person. [right][snapback]823342[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Again, too many people here are citing LAST RESORTS as a viable option in this case. If Jesus was here right now, would he grant clemency? If the trends in the NT were to continue, yes, yes he would. //I'm Pro-Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Dec 13 2005, 07:57 AM']You can't put the sins of others on him. You know that is not a correct view. [right][snapback]823155[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I like the idea that a captain is responsible for his ship when it's in his command. Be that applicable here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='ThomasDM' date='Dec 13 2005, 10:58 AM']Again, too many people here are citing LAST RESORTS as a viable option in this case. If Jesus was here right now, would he grant clemency? If the trends in the NT were to continue, yes, yes he would. //I'm Pro-Life. [right][snapback]823365[/snapback][/right] [/quote] LoL, actually I believe God instituted the death penalty, so I'm not quite so sure that Jesus would necessarily grant clemency. Plus, He has an advantage. He can see the man's interior, which we cannot. All we can see is his exterior, and often people forget that's all we can judge, for better or for worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Dec 13 2005, 08:02 AM']Why? Because California was incapable of keeping the concrete conditions of the common good and stay more in conformity to the dignity of the human person? What does that say about California? [right][snapback]823162[/snapback][/right] [/quote] California is made up of humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasDM Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) [quote name='qfnol31' date='Dec 13 2005, 10:59 AM']Plus, He has an advantage. He can see the man's interior, which we cannot. All we can see is his exterior, and often people forget that's all we can judge, for better or for worse. [right][snapback]823372[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thank you, qfnol31, for proving my point. We can't see what's inside him, so why not play it safe and let the man live rather than sentence a possibly redeemable [no matter how small the chance] man to death and damnation? As for God instituting the death penalty. Are you suggesting that we play God - that we have to capacity to make those decisions? Peace, -Tom Edited December 13, 2005 by ThomasDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Dec 13 2005, 08:16 AM']Hmm what else can we apply that logic to? Abortion? Gay Marriage? Divorce? Its a slippery slope to leave ourselves unaccountable. [right][snapback]823174[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Actually, hot stuff, you must sort out the type of act this is. He killed a person. It is up to the state to judge whether or not they could contain him. This is an act that falls under Natural Law. The state may not be right, but now you've confused laws with punishment. It is not up to the state to go against Natural Law, which it does in the cases of abortion, gay marriage, and divorce. (Actually, the last works only if you believe in natural marriage anyways. ) It does follow that the state could execute him and God will sort it out. There's a difference there where the state must make a judgement based on consciences and where it must make laws based on the Natural Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='ThomasDM' date='Dec 13 2005, 11:03 AM']Thank you, qfnol31, for proving my point. We can't see what's inside him, so why not play it safe and let the man live rather than sentence a possibly redeemable [no matter how small the chance] man to death and damnation? Peace, -Tom [right][snapback]823382[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Because it is up to the government to judge whether or not he is a danger, and if his exterior has not been in keeping with what is right, the state has the responsibility to punish him in accord with what it finds to be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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