MC Just Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 have mercy on his soul o' LORD. Hail Mary full of grace, the LORD is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus, Holy Mary Mother of GOD pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of death. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 If he killed people or had people killed while in jail, he is deserving of the death penalty...and in a way it would be most appropriate to apply it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Dec 12 2005, 07:32 PM']Whoa, so he actually murdered people while in prison? I wasn't aware of that. It seems kind of weird that he's not sorry or apologizing for the murders, he insists that he's innocent. He's also hasn't really outright denouced his membership in the Crips or provided info to the police (which may help save others lives). The picture above looks like a gas chamber. And I just found out that CA has both lethal injection and gas. [right][snapback]822433[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's right. He isn't sorry. He won't help police bring down other members of his murderous gang. Oh good God, he's written childrens books (and no he hasn't. His liberal buddies who don't give a beaver dam about the victims who's heads were blown off while lying helpless and defenseless against this cold blooded murderer have written the books for him. Copies of the transcripts from the trial state that when his gang buddies refused to rob one local store he said "Let me show you how it is done", went into a 7-11, and shot a clerk who was not trying to stop him from taking any money. Then he went AND MURDERED THE CLERKS FAMILY! because Tookie, our new young Jesus didn't want any witnesses. My sources are the the actual papers from the trial (look'em up) as well as news media (non-liberal save the murderer but murder the innocent children type). Want more? His reason for making sure that he murdered the clerk, as recorded during testimony: "He's white". Still think he is God's gift to the children of the world? Pictures of his crimes are posted at Savage's website. (Not for children) As far as continued violence, his position as co-founder allows him to continue ordering the murders of people that don't jive with his philosophy. He can also stop murders according to gang code by voicing his disapproval. He hasn't. And if he is innocent, then why is he asserting that he is a 'changed man'. Heaven knows he was writing his children's books while he was gunning down innocent, decent, hard working people. Now he's finally facing death, bringing closer to victims families, and he's suddenly being compared to "Ghandi, Jesus, Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela." I don't recall Ghandi carrying around a sawed off shotgun pelting off Brits who he didn't like the look of them. Sorry, but liberal media pisses me off. "Save Tookie, kill the babies." Even the LIBERAL 9th circuit court of appeals, one of the most liberal in the country refused to give him a stay of execution. [---> anger not towards dreamwaver in any sort of fashion. <---] Edited December 13, 2005 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) Brother Adam, You didn't give any factual evidence that he is still involved as a gang member within prison. The only fact you've provided is that he has not given the police information about specific people, something which he is probably under no moral obligation to do. There are other ways to make amends in life, and to reach the lost. All you've done is presented evidence that he was a brutal man before prison. Nobody denies that. Ongoing criminal activity has yet to be cited. And you're naive if you think Crips are gonna stop killing because an old man in prison says so. Edited December 13, 2005 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Era Might' date='Dec 12 2005, 10:35 PM']Brother Adam, You didn't give any factual evidence that he is still involved as a gang member within prison. The only fact you've provided is that he has not given the police information about specific people, something which he is probably under no moral obligation to do. There are other ways to make amends in life, and to reach the lost. All you've done is presented evidence that he was a brutal man before prison. Nobody denies that. Ongoing criminal activity has yet to be cited. And you're naive if you think Crips are gonna stop killing because an old man in prison says so. [right][snapback]822650[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I didn't provide any evidience that he has not given police information. I didn't cite any sources period beyond stating I've read court transcripts... That isn't the point. If I'm full of it, fine, take the time to look into it for yourself. Prove I'm full of it. I'm not hear to argue about sources, its completely ignoring the point. But that's fine, join the protest and side with the baby killers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) You made an accusation. You said he is involved in gang activity from prison. This is a serious accusation. It has nothing to do with court transcripts, because your accusation was not about his former life. It is about his life in prison. You say he is a threat, because he continues to kill and scheme from his cell. Either cite something to prove this, or retract it. Tookie Williams was a brutal villain before prison. That much is self evident. What is also evident is that he has worked to undo the gang mentality he started in others. If you want him dead because of his past life, then say so. But don't accuse him of something today unless you can prove it. Edited December 13, 2005 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argent_paladin Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I have little sympathy for him because he says that he is innocent. The first step in any act of contrition or step toward forgiveness is to admit the wrongdoing. Writing children's books and getting nominated for Nobel's is all well and good, but he still maintains his innocence, and thus is unrepentant and unrehabilitated. We cannot reward this behavior. Also, one big reason I don't like the death penalty is that it is arbitrary, but this makes the arbitrariness worse, not better. I have far more sympathy for this guy, and will work to see that he is not executed: [quote] man faces a death sentence in Mississippi because of a no-knock raid that appears to have gone tragically wrong. But the criminal justice system hasn't done such a great job of sorting things out. Blogger Radley Balko is on the case. Here's his initial report:   As the raid on Smith commenced, some officers - including Jones -- went around to what they thought was a side door to Smith's residence, looking for a larger stash of drugs. The door was actually a door to Maye's home. Maye was home alone with his young daughter, and asleep, when one member of the SWAT team broke down the outside door. Jones, who wasn't armed, charged in, and made his way to Maye's bedroom. Because police believed Maye's side of the duplex was still part of Smith's residence, they never announced themselves. Maye, fearing for his life and the safety of his daughter, fired at Jones, hitting him in the abdomen, just below his bulletproof vest. Jones died a short time later.   Maye had no criminal record, and wasn't the target of the search warrant. Police initially concluded they had found no drugs in Maye's side of the duplex. Then, mysteriously, police later announced they'd found "traces" of marijuana and cocaine. I talked to the attorney who represented Maye at trial. She said that to her knowledge, police had found one smoked marijuana cigarette in Maye's apartment. Regardless, since Maye wasn't the subject of the search, whether or not he had misdemeanor amounts of drugs in his possession isn't really irrelevant. What's relevant is whether or not he reasonably believed his life was in danger. Seems pretty clear to me that that would be a reasonable assumption. Yes, that's how it ought to be. Balko has a follow-up post with this observation:   Put yourself in Maye's shoes. You have no criminal record. You've done nothing wrong. In the middle of the night, in a bad neighborhood, you awake to find someone attempting to break down your door. The door flies open, and a man in black paramilitary gear comes storming into your bedroom, where your infant daughter also happens to be sleeping.   Not only is that set of circumstances "reasonable ground" to think that someone is about to do you "great personal injury," and that you're in "imminent danger" of said personal injury being accomplished, you'd be crazy not to take quick action to defend yourself.   The SWAT team was in Maye's home illegally. And they failed to exercise due dilligence in obtaining the search warrant, given that they were obviously unaware that the target of the warrant was a duplex with a second residence. These are facts. If the facts are as Balko reports, this has been a terrible injustice. Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour ought to take a look at it. In the meantime, Balko has been looking further into the case. Here's an interview he did with the prosecutor, and you should just visit his blog and keep scrolling for updates. Especially if your name is Haley Barbour![/quote] Here is a man, minding his own business and defending himself from what he thinks are intruders. He defends his infant daughter and shoots a man who busts down his door in the middle of the night. Then, it appears, evidence is planted, an all-white jury convicts him of murder, and he is sentenced to death. I have far more of a problem with this than with the Tookie case. If you want to see the death penalty abolished, concentrate on these injustices, not Tookie. You will get little sympathy from the public otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 From what I know the of the jail time thing, the state thinks that it isn't possible for him to have been "secertly" running the gang from the jail. They have put him in solitary for, what was it, nine years (?) and none of the "vistor's logs" seem to support any theory of him running the gang. I don't think he is an escape risk and the state of CA would easily be able to keep him under control. There are non-lethal means to remove this threat from society regardless of if that "theory" of yours is correct or not (and overwhelming it appears to be bull). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 If mercy has no meaning for Schwartzenegger, he really should be more socially astute. I bet there will be riots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='argent_paladin' date='Dec 12 2005, 10:13 PM']If you want to see the death penalty abolished, concentrate on these injustices, not Tookie. You will get little sympathy from the public otherwise. [right][snapback]822730[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You cannot condemn one and call the safety of another... The US has full means to hold someone in prison for life while keeping the public safe. If they are not doing this correctly, eliminating the prisoner is not solving the problem, it's only post poning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 One of you axe-wielding Regulators want to put this into the Debate Table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I did it! : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 12 2005, 11:28 PM']I did it! : [right][snapback]822880[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thank you! Aw, dang, now I have to debate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benedictaj Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='Philippe' date='Dec 13 2005, 11:42 AM']i still dont like the death penalty [right][snapback]822355[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Me too. [quote name='argent_paladin' date='Dec 13 2005, 04:13 PM']I have far more sympathy for this guy, and will work to see that he is not executed: Here is a man, minding his own business and defending himself from what he thinks are intruders. He defends his infant daughter and shoots a man who busts down his door in the middle of the night. Then, it appears, evidence is planted, an all-white jury convicts him of murder, and he is sentenced to death. I have far more of a problem with this than with the Tookie case. If you want to see the death penalty abolished, concentrate on these injustices, not Tookie. You will get little sympathy from the public otherwise. [right][snapback]822730[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yeah, that looks like an awful situation...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I suppose it's obvious that I don't believe the death penalty is appropriate in this situation. There was that, erm, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=42232&hl="]twenty-five page debate[/url] on the topic. If Tookie really was somehow, magically, from solitary confinement in a maximum security prison able to control his former gang, I suppose there might be a case. I have seen absolutely no evidence of this, though. Since Adam wouldn't cite his source, I suspect it is not credible. Even the prosecutors in California were calling for clemency. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts