Has anyone read LaCugna?

[Laudate_Dominum]

I was wondering if anyone has read "God For Us" by feminist theologian Catherine LaCugna?

There are aspects of her view regarding the nature and structure of [i]theologia[/i] (more specifically that [i]theologia[/i] must refer to the [i]oikonomia[/i], not God [i]in se[/i]) that appeal to my way of theologizing, but I'd like to flush out the details with someone who has some familiarity with this subject and who is committed to orthodoxy.

Peace.

[shortnun]

I consider myself somewhat familiar with her work and her ecclesiology. I have really benefited from her understanding of the Trinity. I find her brilliant and before her time. I'm happy to discuss her, and what I don't know, I would love to learn from others!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shortnun]

Of all the scholarly types that frequent Phatmass, no one else has read LaCugna? I'm shocked.

[philothea]

But I'm hardly scholarly.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Dec 12 2005, 12:21 PM']I consider myself somewhat familiar with her work and her ecclesiology. I have really benefited from her understanding of the Trinity. I find her brilliant and before her time. I'm happy to discuss her, and what I don't know, I would love to learn from others!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I guess its just the two of us.

maybe someone else will drop in, I know some people forget that the apologetics board exists..

Feel free to post something if you feel like it.. I'm too sleepy to type up my issues at the moment..

[shortnun]

I'm going to finish 10-12 pages on Mariology for the 21st century. But have no fear, I have not forgotten about the parabolic model of the Trinity (see pg 177 of God with Us, if you have it nearby). But I'll post something soon!

Edited December 13, 2005 by shortnun

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Dec 13 2005, 03:58 PM']I'm going to finish 10-12 pages on Mariology for the 21st century. But have no fear, I have not forgotten about the parabolic model of the Trinity (see pg 177 of God with Us, if you have it nearby). But I'll post something soon!
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I'm just curious, what are some of the major sources for your Mariology paper? I consider Mariology to be something of my forte, that's why I'm curious.

Sorry I have been distracted from my original LaCugna issues.. I'll see if I can return to that train of thought soon.

God bless you.

[shortnun]

L_D, how about I just give you my bibliography?
[quote]Bernard, R. The Mystery Of Mary. Translated by M.A. Bouchard. New York: B. Herder Book Co., 1960.

Boss, Sarah Jane. Mary. New Century Theology. New York: Continuum, 2003.

Boyce, Phillip, ed. Mary: The Virgin Mary In The Life And Writings Of John Henry Newman. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2001.

Cantalamessa, Raniero. Mary: Mirror Of The Church. Translated by Frances Lonergan Villa. Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1992.

Coyle, Kathleen. Mary In The Christian Tradition: From A Contemporary Perspective, rev. ed. Mystic, CT: Twenty-Third Publications, 1996.

Hamington, Maurice. Hail Mary?: The Struggle For Ultimate Womanhood In Catholicism. New York: Routledge, 1995.

Jegen, Carol Frances, ed. Mary According To Women. Kansas City, MO: Leaven Press, 1985.

Johnson, Elizabeth A. She Who Is: The Mystery Of God In Feminist Theological Discourse, 2d ed. New York: Crossroads, 2002.
_____. Truly Our Sister: A Theology Of Mary In The Communion Of Saints. New York: Continuum, 2003.

Nachef, Antoine. Mary’s Pope: John Paul II, Mary, And The Church Since Vatican II. Franklin, WI: Sheed and Ward, 2000.

Perrott, MJL. Newman’s Mariology. Southampton: St. Austin Press, 1997.

Rahner, Karl. Mary Mother Of The Lord: Theological Mediations. New York: Herder and Herder, 1963.

Schillebeeckx, Edward. Mary Mother Of The Redemption. Translated by N.D. Smith. New York: Sheed and Ward, 1964.

Stanton, Helen, ed. Mary And Human Liberation: The Story And The Text: Fr. Tissa Balasuriya. Harrisburg, PA: Trinity Press International, 1997.[/quote]

The assignment was to show our understanding of the method of correlation by situating a current pastoral issue (Mariology) in light of Christian tradition (2000 years of Mariology). The second half of my paper takes a more.... critical turn. I gave it to my prof today and he just smiled and said "thanks." That makes me nervous for some reason. But this paper ranks at the top of my list of "fun and interesting papers" I've written in the past few years.

LaCugna can wait... my brain needs a day to decompress. But how did you come to encounter her? Have you read anything or just skimmed some stuff?

[shortnun]

L_D,

let me know what you think about my books and if I was missing any biggies.

Christ's peace.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Dec 14 2005, 08:49 PM']L_D,

let me know what you think about my books and if I was missing any biggies.

Christ's peace.
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These books I either own, or have checked out from a Library and read:
[quote]Boyce, Phillip, ed. Mary: The Virgin Mary In The Life And Writings Of John Henry Newman. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2001.

Cantalamessa, Raniero. Mary: Mirror Of The Church. Translated by Frances Lonergan Villa. Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1992.

Coyle, Kathleen. Mary In The Christian Tradition: From A Contemporary Perspective, rev. ed. Mystic, CT: Twenty-Third Publications, 1996.

Nachef, Antoine. Mary’s Pope: John Paul II, Mary, And The Church Since Vatican II. Franklin, WI: Sheed and Ward, 2000.

Perrott, MJL. Newman’s Mariology. Southampton: St. Austin Press, 1997.

Rahner, Karl. Mary Mother Of The Lord: Theological Mediations. New York: Herder and Herder, 1963.

Schillebeeckx, Edward. Mary Mother Of The Redemption. Translated by N.D. Smith. New York: Sheed and Ward, 1964.[/quote]

These books I am eiter entirely unfamiliar with, or only somewhat acquainted with by reference in other books and/or articles.
[quote]Johnson, Elizabeth A. She Who Is: The Mystery Of God In Feminist Theological Discourse, 2d ed. New York: Crossroads, 2002.
_____. Truly Our Sister: A Theology Of Mary In The Communion Of Saints. New York: Continuum, 2003.

Bernard, R. The Mystery Of Mary. Translated by M.A. Bouchard. New York: B. Herder Book Co., 1960.

Stanton, Helen, ed. Mary And Human Liberation: The Story And The Text: Fr. Tissa Balasuriya. Harrisburg, PA: Trinity Press International, 1997.

Jegen, Carol Frances, ed. Mary According To Women. Kansas City, MO: Leaven Press, 1985.

Hamington, Maurice. Hail Mary?: The Struggle For Ultimate Womanhood In Catholicism. New York: Routledge, 1995.

Boss, Sarah Jane. Mary. New Century Theology. New York: Continuum, 2003.[/quote]

Some classic texts that come to mind, which may be of use for a historical analysis:

[i]Maria nel pensiero dei padri della Chiesa[/i] ([i]Mary and the Fathers of the Church[/i]), by Luigi Gambero

[i]A Short Treatise on the Blessed Virgin Mary[/i], by Rene Laurentin

[i]The Book of Mary[/i], by Henri Daniel-Rops

Jaroslav Pelikan has an interesting book as well, the title of which escapes me at the moment.

It's interesting that you've taken an interest in Newman's Mariology. It happens to be something that I studied in depth a couple years ago.
I don't know of a secondary source that really brings it all together, but Newman's pal Father Faber has some of the richest Mariological gems scattered about his works. I think it would be awesome if someone systematized his thought on the subject. Despite their close proximity, Faber's approach is quite different, but I would say complimentary to that of Newman.

Certain contemporary authors come to mind whose Mariological publications I have greatly appreciated:
Ignace de la Potterie ([i]Mary in the Mystery of the Covenant[/i], a most excellent exegetical work focusing on Our Lady)
Dr. Mark Miravalle (numerous books, mostly compilations of articles and presentations by others)
Fr. Stephano Manelli ([i]All Generations Shall Call Me Blessed[/i], on of the best books on Biblical Mariology that I've seen)
Bertrand de Margerie
Arthur Calkins (he has a great book on JP2 and Our Lady called [i]Totus Tuus[/i] which comes to mind, and innumerable articles on Mariology)
The [i]Mary at the Foot of the Cross [/i]series.

You might also enjoy the three volume [i]Mary of Galilee[/i] series by Bertrand Buby. It's volumes cover the New Testament, the Old Testament and the Fathers. I disagree with a lot of the arguments and conclusions he presents, but its definitely one of the more thought provoking contemporary works out there. I consider the man's work to be a bit.. "progressive" shall we say. I believe he studied under Rene Laurentin (I could be wrong), so it might be interesting to read some of his books as well. I love the exegetical banter between Laurentin and Raymond Brown. Scoop up a copy of [i]The Truth of Christmas [/i]and [i]Birth of the Messiah [/i]if you want a taste, although a copy of [i]Structure et theologie de Luc I-II[/i] would kick the study up a notch. Also a book called [i]For the Love of Mary[/i] comes to mind. The author is perhaps something of a traditionalist, but he has a lot of highly provocative points to make with regard to contemporary scholarship. It's good to get a perspective from the other side of the fence to balance things out a bit.

Karl Rahner's book on Mary (which you mentioned) is pretty good, but I like Hugo Rahner's book on Our Lady more in some ways. :
You may also find Ratzinger's book, [i]Daughter Zion[/i] to be useful and interesting. Also [i]Our Father, Our Mother[/i], by George Montague comes to mind. Von Balthasar has some facinating and original Mariological ideas, but he and I part ways to some extent in this area. My suspicion, or accusation really, would be that he had a bit too much Barth on the brain, and neglected the high Mariology of the pre-conciliar era. Adrienne Von Speyr on the other hand, has my enthusiastic endorsement; although hers was certainly a different kind of project.

I consider the multi-volume [i]Mariology[/i] of Juniper Carol OFM, to be the best single source in the English speaking world of pre-conciliar Mariology. Oh, and it comes with perhaps the ultimate Mariological bibliography. Enough book ideas to keep you busy for a while.
If you can find a copy of Scheeben's [i]Mariology[/i], consider me jealous. It's one of the most profound texts on the subject, I've been planning on buying it for some time, but its always really expensive. Any decent Catholic library should have it (if not, [i]anathema sit[/i].. j/k ).
Also, back issues of [i]Marian Studies[/i] are appealing since I consider the 1950's to be the pinnacle of 20th century Mariology (I'm talking pre-1970 back issues).
The emphasis (at times over-emphasis) on ecumenical dialogue and things of that sort seems to have pushed Mariology to the back burner after the Council.
And much of the Mariology that emerged after the Council has been minimalistic, or focused on an exaggerated [i]ressourcement [/i]at the expense of a treasury of Mariological insight (or in some cases all out revisionism and radical minimalism, perhaps at the service of a heterodox Ecclesiology or a false ecumenical sense).

[i]Immaculate Conception and the Holy Spirit[/i], which is a summary of St. Maximillian Kolbe's Mariology, is one of those "must reads" in my book.

But certainly if I was going to write a paper on the subject you mentioned, I would integrate [i]Lumen Gentium[/i] (primarily chapter VIII of course) into the discussion. I would also discuss [i]Redemptoris Mater [/i]of Pope John Paul II, perhaps integrating material from other texts such as [i]Mulieris Dignitatem[/i]. I'm of the camp that sees the post-conciliar move to a more Ecclesiological Mariology as mistaken. While I can appreciate the benefits of this approach on some levels, I believe authentic Mariology must be grounded upon the classical Christological foundations.
I am also convinced that it was JP2's intention in [i]Redemptoris Mater[/i] to nudge contemporary Mariology back onto this track.
I don't think that the Ecclesiological paradigm has the potency or infrastructure to adequately deal with the subject of Mary's Spiritual Maternity. I also believe that the Christological paradigm is robust enough to appropriate the key elements of the Ecclesiological approach within itself.

Anyway, this post is getting out of hand.. I hope it is at least somewhat interesting, if not useful. And if you want more book recommendations let me know.

God bless you.

[phatcatholic]

Top 15 Catholic Books about Mary
[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/39E7YWPDY0H2K/102-5335126-4461751?%5Fencoding=UTF8"]http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania...5Fencoding=UTF8[/url]

some are scholarly, but most are apologetical in nature.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='shortnun' date='Dec 14 2005, 08:28 PM']LaCugna can wait... my brain needs a day to decompress.     But how did you come to encounter her? Have you read anything or just skimmed some stuff?
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Her name just kept coming up in footnotes and things in various articles here and there. Much of her discussion in [i]God For Us[/i] pertains directly to the central issues of my own little theological project.
I actually have only a cursory understanding of her thought as of now, but I'd like to delve into it a bit more in the near future.
I would say the biggest problem to my mind has to do with the limits of theology and the actual nature of theology itself. Obviously this subject contains within itself vast questions and a host of perennial issues.
I assume, or rather hope, that I have the better part of my life yet ahead of me to figure these things out.

How did you get into LaCugna? I actually approach her with a hermeneutic of suspicion you might say. I'm not sure what the clinical term would be, but I tend to have a phobia toward material heresy, so this tends to me my normal approach, nothing personal. :

[Laudate_Dominum]

Anyone (shortnun?) have any thoughts about LaCugna or Mariology that might be interesting to discuss? I'd hate for this thread to die..

[shortnun]

...... driving 9 hours to see the p-rents. The drive should provide me with ample time to come up with a topic or two for discussion. No worries, thread won't die.