Laudate_Dominum Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='philothea' date='Dec 12 2005, 10:48 AM']What he said. (Thanks for saving me all that typing. ) [right][snapback]821589[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well honestly, to my mind I am trying to embody an authentic Catholicity, in opposition to a prevailing neo-Marxist Americanism. (I'm speaking of the culture, not indivuals on phatmass so don't take offense anyone) I realize a lot of the older encyclicals are ignored these days, but there are teachings of the Church that play into this sort of thing. I'm not the rebellious rogue people may see me as at this moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 my my...I wonder how long this could go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 12 2005, 11:49 AM']Well, while believing something contrary to Church teaching would constitute heresy, believing that a matter of civil law was superfluous, or even evil and oppressive, is in no way problematic. I believe that abortion on demand is evil and I'm not afraid to express this view. This is hardly the same as being in heresy. That's my point. [right][snapback]821594[/snapback][/right] [/quote] And your point has the sole purpose of convoluting the issue. And you were suggesting that my statement was borderline heretical. And you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Dec 12 2005, 10:52 AM']And your point has the sole purpose of convoluting the issue. And you were suggesting that my statement was borderline heretical. And you were wrong. [right][snapback]821601[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I indicated that is was a possible implication of your statement. "If one believes something that is contrary to civil or Church teaching, don't encourage others to "take up the cause"." I stand by that. The difference between these two realms is vast. That's all. And it conjured an impression of the neo-Marxist mindset, namely that the state "defines" good and evil. Thus phrasing the states enactments in same way as Church "teachings", stirred a reaction in me. And putting aside the issue of underage drinking, I would certainly affirm that we can dissent and deny assent to civil legislation. In a sense its our duty as Catholics to discern and make conscientious decisions regarding the activities of the state in which we live. And there are times when rebellion can be justified or even become a moral imperative. Obviously the principles at work are categorically different from that which we owe God and the Church, so I don't appreciate these two spheres being held in such close conceptual proximity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tojo Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Dec 12 2005, 12:49 PM']And my problem here isn't that we discuss the relative rightness or wrongness of underage drinking -- I'm all for opening up that topic. My issue is that Al was flaunting his disobedience to the civil law on a public forum in which he's in a leadership position. [right][snapback]821593[/snapback][/right] [/quote] :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 12 2005, 10:51 AM']Well honestly, to my mind I am trying to embody an authentic Catholicity, in opposition to a prevailing neo-Marxist Americanism. (I'm speaking of the culture, not indivuals on phatmass so don't take offense anyone) I realize a lot of the older encyclicals are ignored these days, but there are teachings of the Church that play into this sort of thing. I'm not the rebellious rogue people may see me as at this moment. [right][snapback]821598[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I believe you! And I want to see some documents. But careful, or we'll get shut down. We should probably start a topic (perhaps a poll?) discussing whether law is binding on Catholics. I would if I wasn't really busy and distracted right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='philothea' date='Dec 12 2005, 11:02 AM']I believe you! And I want to see some documents. But careful, or we'll get shut down. We should probably start a topic (perhaps a poll?) discussing whether law is binding on Catholics. I would if I wasn't really busy and distracted right now. [right][snapback]821614[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm actually dying to get into that topic.. I'm kind of devoted to open theism right now and I consider it to be an issue of importance.. but so is this.. oh decisions decisions.. hehe Let's start a thread. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Alrighty then... I'll start one. Give me a moment. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Dec 12 2005, 11:54 AM']I indicated that is was a possible implication of your statement. "If one believes something that is contrary to civil or Church teaching, don't encourage others to "take up the cause"." I stand by that. The difference between these two realms is vast. That's all. [/quote] Not vast when it comes to obedience. Or more to the point, encouraging disobedience. [quote] And it conjured an impression of the neo-Marxist mindset, namely that the state "defines" good and evil. Thus phrasing the states enactments in same way as Church "teachings", stirred a reaction in me. [/quote] Those are your issues. As a society, we are responsible to uphold the laws. If we do not, there are punitive results. As a Church, we are responsible to uphold the laws. If there are doctrines that we struggle with, there can be punitive results. There lies the parallel. Nothing marxist about it. [quote] And putting aside the issue of underage drinking, I would certainly affirm that we can dissent and deny assent to civil legislation. In a sense its our duty as Catholics to discern and make conscientious decisions regarding the activities of the state in which we live. And there are times when rebellion can be justified or even become a moral imperative. Obviously the principles at work are categorically different from that which we owe God and the Church, so I don't appreciate these two spheres being held in such close conceptual proximity. [right][snapback]821603[/snapback][/right] [/quote] And you would you like to give a modern day example? Something concrete here in the US? Please name for us a law that us currently being upheld that we should break. Moreover that you would encourage minors to break as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='morostheos' date='Dec 12 2005, 10:52 AM'] my my...I wonder how long this could go on... [right][snapback]821600[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where's the Back Alley when you need it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Dec 12 2005, 11:37 AM']Please name for us a law that us currently being upheld that we should break. Moreover that you would encourage minors to break as well? [right][snapback]821677[/snapback][/right][/quote] Milking other people's cows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 My advice as a "role model" has been and will always be: OBEY YOUR PARENTS regardless of what those overly invasive laws say. I did not suggest anyone drink unless their parents had approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Dec 12 2005, 12:42 PM'] Where's the Back Alley when you need it?? [right][snapback]821686[/snapback][/right] [/quote] My thoughts exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 12 2005, 01:46 PM']My advice as a "role model" has been and will always be: OBEY YOUR PARENTS regardless of what those overly invasive laws say. I did not suggest anyone drink unless their parents had approved. [right][snapback]821699[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Hmmm, I didn't notice you made that distinction in your opening post. In fact, I believe you said: [quote]the people living in my dormatory think that I'm ALWAYS drunk. lol, I wonder what gave them that idea?! no, but seriously, I'm not. I have a few drinks (**of uh... water... you know alchohol is illegal for 18 year olds!**) every now and then, they just happen to always see me walking into my room a little tipsy and think I'm really drunk a lot of times. haha, college life is awesome. my bookshelf is amazing, it's got a secret like dexter's lab only for good clean college fun stuff. [b]I love how God gave us such an amazing gift which no government of man has the authority to deny to its citizens, no matter what their age!!![/b][/quote] Did I miss the addendum "as long as your parents say it's OK"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now