Guns, Guns Guns

[Ora et Labora]

I have my own 22 rifle....

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Jake Huether' date='Jul 21 2003, 10:14 AM']Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

If it wasn't guns, then it would be knives.  If it wasn't knives, it'd be pitch forks and shovles. 
Heck, if we're afraid of people abusing "weapons" we might as well restrick forks and spoons.

I don't think we need to pep up restrictions on guns in order to secure peoples safety.  I think we need to pep up our funding for promoting a culture of life - including, but not limited to, free public classes on NFP, Abortion education, and general morality 101.

When people start thinking they're safe, then they won't need/want to get weapons.  It starts in our heads.
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Exactly!

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Winchester' date='Sep 12 2005, 03:03 PM']My right to bear arms sufficient to protect my life is not given by the constitution.

It is merely acknowledged by it.
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Agreed! Completly!

Edited September 13, 2005 by Don John of Austria

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='son_of_angels' date='Sep 12 2005, 09:45 PM']Really, I never knew that the right to defend one's life in extraordinary means (yes, that means taking another's life) was protected by divine law.  In fact, I thought martyrdom was a blessing.

To defend others' lives, by joining the army or using weapons, perhaps an argument could be made, but it seems dubitable. After all, early Christians were often automatically excommunicated for joining an army or completing a death sentence.

Don't put words in God's mouth.  The Constitution is not a church document, nor prescribed by an ecumenical council, but rather a human document filled with masonic and enlightenment ideals.  IT IS NOT INFALLIBLE NOR UNIVERSALLY APPLICABLE.
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Early Christians where not excommunicated for joining the army, not for the act of joining the army, but for acknowleging the Emperor as a livig God which all in the army where obliged to do. You will notice that Christ did not tell the Centerion to stop being a Centurion on the contrary he called him a just man and compliminted his faith. Further St. Morris was a Christian in command of a Chrstian Legion, they where not Excommunicated but glorified by the Church when they where executed for refusing to honor Caeser as god. That was the issue with membership in the Roman army not fighting. It is certianly ones right to defend ones life using weapons, the fact that it is a right is what [i]makes[/i] martyrdom a blessing that one has put aside ones basic human right to witness to the Godless. Of course there are v0iolent martyrs as well the Crusaders spring to mind.



I agree with you about the constitution however, it was and is a document which is servicable but not Good, the things that are good about it are those things most often attacked, such as the second ammendment.

[son_of_angels]

Look, I'm a gun owner and I love owning guns. I think they are an essential aspect of having a nation governed "by the people" as those people have to have the means of retaining power and order.

However, I don't think anyone in the Vatican, nor even the pope himself would say that privilege of owning weapons, taken of itself, is an intrinsic human right. Certainly weapons could be applied to the notion of "shelter" within a certain context, and also as a means to defend righteousness itself, but other than that they are a privilege.

[White Knight]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' date='Sep 13 2005, 09:02 AM']My ex-boyfriend and I got into a fight about armed weapons.
Oh, wow.
I beleive in guns, not in my house.
I know that guns don't kill people. People kill people. And even though it is secure, what if my children find it and think it is a toy? I'm not saying guns are bad, but I'd keep it in storage. Not in my house.
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This is why people sould not own firearms until they know how to use them [b]"Properly and Safely"[/b]

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='son_of_angels' date='Sep 13 2005, 02:23 PM']Look, I'm a gun owner and I love owning guns.  I think they are an essential aspect of having a nation governed "by the people" as those people have to have the means of retaining power and order.

However, I don't think anyone in the Vatican, nor even the pope himself would say that privilege of owning weapons, taken of itself, is an intrinsic human right. Certainly weapons could be applied to the notion of "shelter" within a certain context, and also as a means to defend righteousness itself, but other than that they are a privilege.
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well I don't know what the Pope would say since I am not he, nor do I have his phone number, but the Tradition of the Church has always been that people have an intrinsic right to self defence, weapons are necessary to that defence, one does not have a right to a gun persay, one has a right to what ever weapon is in common use at the time, be it a gun, sword, bow, particle accelerator, gyrojet, whatever. The human being has the right to defend himself, that right must include the right to possess the means of that defense.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' date='Sep 13 2005, 09:02 AM']My ex-boyfriend and I got into a fight about armed weapons.
Oh, wow.
I beleive in guns, not in my house.
I know that guns don't kill people. People kill people. And even though it is secure, what if my children find it and think it is a toy? I'm not saying guns are bad, but I'd keep it in storage. Not in my house.
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just to let you know in the U.S. the numbers of children killed or wounded by another child( or himself) hover at between 5 and 9 in the entire country. In 1999 31 children under the age of 10 were killed by an accidental gunshot wound but only 6 of them where in fact shot by another child. In fact bathtubs and 5 gallon water buckets [i]each[/i] kill more children under 5 than do guns( from any source accedental or not)

[hierochloe]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 13 2005, 02:39 PM']just to let you know in the U.S.  the numbers of children killed or wounded by another child( or himself) hover at between 5 and 9  in the entire country. In 1999 31 children under the age of 10 were killed by an accidental gunshot wound but only 6 of them where in fact shot by another child. In fact bathtubs and 5 gallon water buckets [i]each[/i]  kill more children under 5 than do guns( from any source accedental or not)
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Could you cite your source for those stats. I would love to rebuttal my dear Michael Moore loving, Canadian friend with those numbers.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 13 2005, 05:30 PM']Could you cite your source for those stats. I would love to rebuttal my dear Michael Moore loving, Canadian friend with those numbers.
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The CDC compiles these stats, as well as HUD and several other gov. institutions.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 13 2005, 04:30 PM']Could you cite your source for those stats. I would love to rebuttal my dear Michael Moore loving, Canadian friend with those numbers.
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Sure but I left it at school, I'll try and get the article I got it froms actual source. there was another article which cited the rise in vioolent crime in Britian, and Canada and Austraila since they past there comprahensive gun bans in the late 90's. Gun control advacates often discuss the drop in " gun violence" and there is in fact such a drop when guns are banned but not in over all violence, nor is that violence any less fatal, Britians murder rate has gone way up since 1997.

Edited September 14, 2005 by Don John of Austria

[White Knight]

Gun Safely is very important and is needed, I personally believe that a person sould not own a gun inless they know how to use it, and have some sort of experience with it.

[Winchester]

Obviously the succesful murderers know how.

It's the when that's the problem.

[White Knight]

Thats one reason why everyone sould own a gun and keep practicing the skills on how to use them properly and savely so they can prevent more murders from happening.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 13 2005, 04:30 PM']Could you cite your source for those stats. I would love to rebuttal my dear Michael Moore loving, Canadian friend with those numbers.
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I got them from an article in the march 2004 copy of American Hunter by John R Lott jr. He apparantly has a book called " The Bias agianst Guns". And another article in the same magazine regarding Gary A Mauser' s ( Professer at Canada's Simon Fraser University you can sa ha ha to your canadian friend) study on Gun bans.