The Joey-O Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 I've got a couple of friends who are getting married. They are Catholic and devout in their faith. The to-be-wifey, Sheila (not her real name), is on medication to prevent scarring in her reproductive system. This medication has the effect of making her infertile. However, if she gets off the medication she'll be fertile again (after a while). Sheila and Robert (also not his real name) want kids eventually, but not right away. The doctors say that she has a fertility window of roughly 15 years once she's off the medication. After that, the scarring and other complications will cause infertility. However, the longer she's on the medication that makes her temporarily infertile, the longer she pushes back the window. They don't want children immediately, so she plans on staying on the medication for a few years. The medication also helps with the incredible pain caused by the scarring. They've talked to 2 priests and several friends about this issue. The priests both say that she can stay on the medication as long as she honestly plans on having kids eventually (there is a reasonable limit understood here). A couple of the friends agree. A couple of the friends say that it's her burden to bear. The pain, the possibility of not having kids, etc. is just how it is. All medication that causes infertility, even temporarily is evil. What do you guys think they should do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 well, first i would look into other treatments that don't cause infertility. the ideal situation would be one in which she can receive treatment for the scarring and the pain yet still be open to life. this is ideal b/c we should want to always avoid placing artificial barriers in the way of life, even when our primary motive is to care for the mother. now, if there are no other options, then such an act is permissable b/c it is a last resort and b/c the primary intention is to care for the mother, which, unfortunately, has a secondary and unintentional side-effect of rendering the mother infertile. now, as some of your friends say, she could always choose to endure the scarring and the pain for the sake of life. this too is an option, and while it is amazingly noble and self-sacrificial and it would heap many blessings upon her, it is not required of her to make this decision [i][b]as long as[/b][/i] the treatment for the scarring and pain that renders one infertile is [i][b]a last resort[/b][/i] and the [i][b]primary[/b][/i] intention is NOT to delay pregnancy or to become infertile. caring for the mother is virtuous as well. also, i can see where, over a prolonged amount of time, one could unwittingly begin to view the medication as a type of birth control. this should be avoided. the couple should always remind themselves exactly why she is taking it, and she should quit taking it as soon as it is no longer needed for the scarring and pain, or as soon as another treatment that doesn't render infertility is found. furthermore--and i invite correction on this point--i would advise, at least based on my initial feeling, that the couple not have sex while she is on the medication. it would appear that the presence of an artificial barrier to procreation would make the sex act, which has as one of its fundamental ends the creation of human life, an illict one to perform. however, note also that this particular scenario touches upon questions and concerns that people have with Natural Family Planning, and i profess some ignorance of that topic. i'm sure that sean will be helpful here. hopefully the little i have provided is helpful as well. pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Thanx alot. I'm just not sure how legalistic one should go with this. Your answer is a LOT better than the best I could come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) I agree that such a medication could be used as long as there was nothing else available. I agree that if the suppression of ovulation is an unitended consequence, then there is no moral wrong, such as removing a baby in a tubal pregnancy. This is the only thing that causes me to disagree with your answer phat. [quote]They don't want children immediately, so she plans on staying on the medication for a few years.[/quote] This seems to me to make staying on the medication to prevent pregnancy a primary purpose or at least an intended purpose. This is not okay. Further the Church says that one must have "grave" reason for delaying pregnancy. If they intend to have children but not right away, what is the "grave" reason for delaying having children? Getting to know eachother? Not grave. Finances? I believe that this is rarely "grave" as the Lord provides. In a nutshell it seems to me that they are giving purpose to the contraceptive aspects of this medication and that is wrong. My 2 cents. Edited December 8, 2005 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancesforLove Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Take the medicine, its your health it should be taken care of. They might just have to wait a little longer to have kids. But if she goes off the medicine then she won't be able to have kids and have other complications probably. I would stay on the medicine. And, thessalonian, they aren't married yet so it isn't being used as contraceptives really. If they're not married, then they are probably not having sex anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) [quote name='DancesforLove' date='Dec 8 2005, 11:31 AM']Take the medicine, its your health it should be taken care of. They might just have to wait a little longer to have kids. But if she goes off the medicine then she won't be able to have kids and have other complications probably. I would stay on the medicine. And, thessalonian, they aren't married yet so it isn't being used as contraceptives really. If they're not married, then they are probably not having sex anyway. [right][snapback]816973[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I didnt say she shouldn't use it now. I agree that it is fine right now but the question obviously involves use after marriage. YOu are right, it is not currently being used as a contraceptive. The problem I have is when an intended consequence of the medicine is to forstall pregnancy when they are married. My objection is one of intent, not one of total objection to the medicine even when they are married. I think it may be morally acceptable if there is no intent of avoiding pregnancy and that is only an unintended consequence. It sounds like it is not. Edited December 8, 2005 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancesforLove Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 She didn't say they would use it for contraception. They would use it to prevent scarring until they were physically and emotionally ready as a couple to have children. If she has problems with her reproductive organs I am sure there are risks and problems when it comes to her having a baby. That is why I don't consider it wrong, if they get married and then don't take the medicine because its a form of contraception and then she becomes infertille because she has so much scarring then that would technically be considered a form of contraception because you are preventing yourself being pregnant. Either way shes using contraception, its just a matter if shes using it now or later really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) [quote name='DancesforLove' date='Dec 8 2005, 11:52 AM']She didn't say they would use it for contraception. They would use it to prevent scarring until they were physically and emotionally ready as a couple to have children. If she has problems with her reproductive organs I am sure there are risks and problems when it comes to her having a baby. That is why I don't consider it wrong, if they get married and then don't take the medicine because its a form of contraception and then she becomes infertille because she has so much scarring then that would technically be considered a form of contraception because you are preventing yourself being pregnant. Either way shes using contraception, its just a matter if shes using it now or later really. [right][snapback]816999[/snapback][/right] [/quote] When important questions that require some thought come up you need to read and be reflective, rather than just shoot off an answer. You have not read my post or the question carefully. The initial post said: [quote]They don't want children immediately, so she plans on staying on the medication for a few years.[/quote] This puts a contraceptive purpose to it in my understanding. That is wrong as an intended consequence even if secondary. If it is an unitended consequence it may be all right. The difference in my mind is sin is a matter of the heart and the heart appears to be wrong in my mind. Blessings Edited December 8, 2005 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancesforLove Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Excuse me but you didn't read my post right either. Reread it if you are going to argue with me. I posted my opinion for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) [quote name='DancesforLove' date='Dec 8 2005, 12:04 PM']Excuse me but you didn't read my post right either. Reread it if you are going to argue with me. I posted my opinion for her. [right][snapback]817006[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No I did. Your answer does not address the question. It addresses the before marriage question which is not what is being asked. Your contradition of my position took what I said out of the context of marriage which was the intent of it.You need to reread the initial question, understanding the context is an engaged couple about to be wed, i.e. then can have children. The intent is to keep taking it and a part of the reason is to avoid or delay pregnancy. That is a contraceptive mentality. Once again these questions are important and require understanding of the issue, reflection, and understanding of Church teaching in these matters. They have serious consequences. Edited December 8, 2005 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancesforLove Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Ok, the question was for peoples opinions, not for an argument. I put my opinion so leave it at that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 [quote name='DancesforLove' date='Dec 8 2005, 12:10 PM']Ok, the question was for peoples opinions, not for an argument. I put my opinion so leave it at that... [right][snapback]817017[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I gave mine. You choose to contradict it, naming me. If you don't want to get in to an arguement don't start one, distorting and taking out of context what I said. Thanks. God bless you though Thess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 [quote name='DancesforLove' date='Dec 8 2005, 12:10 PM']Ok, the question was for peoples opinions, not for an argument. I put my opinion so leave it at that... [right][snapback]817017[/snapback][/right] [/quote] By the way this is what is called a discussion board. People disagree with opinions. If you don't want yours disagreed with don't post it. Otherwise your in the wrong place. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancesforLove Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Actually this is open mic, not the debate forumn. Thats my opinion so deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 (edited) [quote name='DancesforLove' date='Dec 8 2005, 12:19 PM']Actually this is open mic, not the debate forumn. Thats my opinion so deal with it. [right][snapback]817039[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Once again hun you started the debate by contradicting and distorting my opinion. Calling me out by name. I don't care what forum it is. If someone does that I am going to correct the record. Edited December 8, 2005 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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