question from a protestant

[Diamond]

See, that's the thing. I don't think Christ ever started the Catholic Church in specific. He never commisions that the CATHOLIC Church would be the one true church for ever and ever. He tells Peter basiically, that the Church will be established by him. He never says "the Catholic Church is what you will start, and will never need to change" and besides, the Catholic Church simply, as far as I can tell, did not believe some of the things it did today (When was the doctine of the Immaculate Conception formed?). Anyways, that's just what I understand. Also, were the same ideas about the decrees of the papacy being infallible believed by Peter and the original Church? Just curious. Thanks for the help, and no, you didn't come off as talking down to me at all, I honestly appreciate any and all advice/information on the matter.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Diamond' date='Jan 3 2006, 11:24 PM']See, that's the thing. I don't think Christ ever started the Catholic Church in specific. He never commisions that the CATHOLIC Church would be the one true church for ever and ever. He tells Peter basiically, that the Church will be established by him. He never says "the Catholic Church is what you will start, and will never need to change" and besides, the Catholic Church simply, as far as I can tell, did not believe some of the things it did today (When was the doctine of the Immaculate Conception formed?). Anyways, that's just what I understand. Also, were the same ideas about the decrees of the papacy being infallible believed by Peter and the original Church? Just curious. Thanks for the help, and no, you didn't come off as talking down to me at all, I honestly appreciate any and all advice/information on the matter.
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Well, He started [i]a[/i] Church, and the Catholic church is the only one that traces its self all the way back to Peter hence to Christ, so that would be the one that Christ started specifically.
And there is only one Truth (I mean with a capital 'T' ) and Truth doesn't change. And if all the different Denominations hold different things to be true, and everything that each of them holds to be True were True, then there would be like millions of different True things and lots of them would contradict each other.

The other stuff I'm not [i]as[/i] sure about (I'm learning too). You'll have to wait till Phatcatholic or another scholar/knowelgeable person answers because they'd do it much better than I. Or you could check the Directory that PhatCatholic linked to earlier.
It's pinned to the top of the Page

God Bless!

P.S.

Peter knew he was just a sinful man. But he also knew that if Christ was going to leave him "in charge" , that He would not let him lead others astray. Infallibilty only applies to matters of Doctrine. It does NOT apply to the pope's personal opions.

[Diamond]

I did a cursory check, and all I could discover was that one of the Pious's made the decleration of the Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. Since I don't believe in the Papacy's infallibilty when making those sort of declarations, I'm simply wanting to know where those Doctrines, and the one of Infallibility were put into place. Did Peter believe that all he said on his seat when making decrees was infallible, as Popes of today do? I want to know what the beliefs were regarding Mary, Papal Infallibility and anything else that seperates Protestans and Catholics from one another were when the ORIGINAL Catholic Church was formed by Peter.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Diamond' date='Jan 4 2006, 12:05 AM']I did a cursory check, and all I could discover was that one of the Pious's made the decleration of the Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. Since I don't believe in the Papacy's infallibilty when making those sort of declarations, I'm simply wanting to know where those Doctrines, and the one of Infallibility were put into place. Did Peter believe that all he said on his seat when making decrees was infallible, as Popes of today do? I want to know what the beliefs were regarding Mary, Papal Infallibility and anything else that seperates Protestans and Catholics from one another were when the ORIGINAL Catholic Church was formed by Peter.
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Well, Like I said, Peter would have known that God wouldn't let him lead His flock astray. Think of Infallibilty as an act of God's Mercy. He knew(knows) that we humans are weak and sinful. He intrusted His flock to Peter (Do you love Me, peter? Yes, Lord. Feed my flock...) so He also wouldn't let Peter/ will not let Peter's successors feed then bad food. (Teach them the wrong things. ) So I would say yes Peter beleived that Jesus would not let him teach His flock wrongly.

The early Church Fathers said a lot about Mary. [url="http://www.cin.org/users/jgallegos/immac.htm"]Here are some[/url]

[url="http://davidmacd.com/catholic/mary_in_the_early_church.htm"]Here you will find a lot, too. [/url]

[url="http://www.catholic.net/Catholic Church/Periodicals/Faith/1998-01-02/lourdes.html"]Our Lady of Lourdes.[/url]

Please read that last one, Especially. [i]That[/i] is the recent history of Docrine of The Immaculate Conception


~Catherine

And this is the Original Catholic Church.

[phatcatholic]

moving this thread to the debate table so that diamond's questions can be more adequately addressed.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Diamond' date='Jan 4 2006, 12:05 AM']I did a cursory check, and all I could discover was that one of the Pious's made the decleration of the Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. Since I don't believe in the Papacy's infallibilty when making those sort of declarations, I'm simply wanting to know where those Doctrines, and the one of Infallibility were put into place. Did Peter believe that all he said on his seat when making decrees was infallible, as Popes of today do? I want to know what the beliefs were regarding Mary, Papal Infallibility and anything else that seperates Protestans and Catholics from one another were when the ORIGINAL Catholic Church was formed by Peter.
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That's great that you want to know those things, yet you will be hard pressed to be able to discover all of your answers by sticking to "The Bible Alone", especially since these early Christian communities and so on for at least 400 years did not have a New Testament. They trusted in the authority of the Apostolic writings.

So what about that Bible you have there? How do you know it is trustworthy? How do you know it has the correct number of books? Or do you have a "fallible list of infallible books"? It took a Catholic ecumenical council to decree that the Bible is infallible and the canon of the Bible contains so many books.

Also consider doctrinal development. As time goes on we discover more about the faith that we already have. The Apostles could not recite Aquinas' Summa Theologica, but the roots of what Aquinas would expound on were already there. As we explore what has been revealed to us, we learn more about it and what it means for our faith.

Peter was given the keys to the kingdom, this has special significant meaning. David's Kingdom was a "type" of the kingdom of Christ. He had a royal steward, second in command to the whole kingdom and he carried the 'keys to the kingdom'. When Jesus bestowed the keys to Peter and then told the apostles "What you bind on earth is bound in heaven and what you loose on earth is loosed in heaven" means something beyond 'allagory'. There is truth and force behind those statements on authority that Jesus made, giving to the Apostles authority to exercise over the Church. It is a servants authority.

Well...nough for now.