missionseeker Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 this is a good exercise because it helps you to figure out which arguments are effective and which ones are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 ah, but now I'm all out so I'll have to just sit back and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddieloudog Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Wow, this was a good string! I have been often confronted by the Mary question. I am able to at least point out the fact that we don't worship her. This was helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 I'm joining this thread a little late, but this one is interesting because I've been answering questions from my Baptist roommates about Marian devotion since I've started going to RCIA. [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 9 2005, 12:28 PM']here was his reply...enjoy ----- ei rev, about that guy you said that says he is still saved while killing you... He isnt truly saved...because when you are saved...the grace of God would fill you and would fulfill you..when you accept chirst..the holy spirit would guide you...no one in his right mind would think of shooting... yes...faith without works is dead...because the work is the evidence of faith... BUT FAITH is the one that saves you... work is the fruit of your faith. good works flows naturally when you have Christ.. when your doing bad things....your faith is questionable wether you are truley sincere or not.... [/quote] When you read the sections of the Catechism about faith and the basics that are necessary for salvation, Catholics actually agree with Protestants. Faith in Christ is the basis of our salvation and good works are the fruit of faith. However, most Protestants try to separate the faith from the works and that's what this question is getting at. Yes, the Catechism also says that Catholics must attend Mass, go to Confession, etc. But again, these good works are all grounded in faith. Eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ provides no grace to those who have no faith. However, we who do believe eagerly attend Mass at least on Sunday's and Holy Days, although not out of obligation, but out of joy. [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 9 2005, 12:28 PM']WOW...mary being sinless..... This is a huge statement... I know now and understand the big difference between the catholic faith and protestant faith... i DONT AGREE mary being sinless... Christ was sent to earth to die for us...He is sinless so that our sins would be cleansed... Mary however...is a blessed woman...but she isnt sinless... IF mary is sinless than, there would be no reason for Christ to be sent to earth to die for us...for it would prove that man can be without sin... Christ died for us because Man cannot be perfect...man cannot be without sin..man cannot follow the 10 commandments perfectly ....it is in our human nature... the only reason why Christ didnt sin is because He has both human and Divine nature... while mary having a human nature cannot avoid sin.... Christ died for us to saved us from sin... God knew when adam sinned....the whole human race is doomed to sin... so Christ was sent to earth... [/quote] Wow... looking back on my own journey, I remember how weird it felt to pray the rosary the first time. Mary's sinlessness does not reduce God's glory. In fact, her soul magnifies the Lord. In her own words, she says, "How my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!" (Luke 1:47) God, in his inifinite wisdom, desire to provide for his Son the best mother anyone could have. That God was able to intervene and save Mary from the stain of Original Sin does not mean that God could have done this for everyone person ever created. In fact, were not Adam and Eve also created without Original Sin? And for a woman to bear God-made-flesh in her womb required true purity and submission to God's will. In addition, Christ inherited his human nature from Mary, and this human nature could not be allowed to have any stain or blemish. And here's another point that God revealed to me while meditating on this: Christ was, is, and always will be Christ. Christ who rose into Heaven and is now seated at the right hand of God is the same Christ who was crucified, and the same Christ who established the Eucharist at the Last Supper, and the same Christ who was baptized by John the Baptist, and the same Christ who was found in the Temple at 12 years old, and the same Christ who cried in Mary's arms as an infant... and the same Christ who began to grow within Mary's womb after the Holy Spirit conceived Him. Christ was once only a few cells growing inside Mary's womb. How could God allow His Son's flesh to be defiled with the blood of a sinful mother? Indeed, Mary and Christ shared the same beating heart for about 23 days. The Blood of Jesus that would be shed 33 years later for our salvation was also Mary's blood until Christ was born. Now, for the sake of all humanity, I find it impossible to imagine Mary was a sinful, rebellious person like the rest of us. [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 9 2005, 12:28 PM']rev i know you are an educated catholic and i dont claim to be an expert in religion but please keep an open mind in your faith... because these are the things which are important to us...our salvation.... [/quote] I've been hearing the same advice from many of my Protestant friends. My mind has been open all along. I've even been too open minded about some things, but I cannot find a legitimate reason to reject Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='Dec 11 2005, 04:00 PM']The Blood of Jesus that would be shed 33 years later for our salvation was also Mary's blood until Christ was born. [right][snapback]820620[/snapback][/right][/quote] oh man, good call i never thought of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='phatcatholic' date='Dec 11 2005, 01:01 AM']this is a good exercise because it helps you to figure out which arguments are effective and which ones are not. [right][snapback]820190[/snapback][/right] [/quote] you should start a "practice your apologetics skills" thread. ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='missionseeker' date='Dec 12 2005, 11:06 PM']you should start a "practice your apologetics skills" thread. ^ [right][snapback]822609[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oh man, that does sound like a good idea!! u pick a topic and i'll pretend to be the protestant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 umm.. hmm, so many to chose from. Why not this one(Faith alone) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 or Mary. and the Saints. That one may be a little easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 [quote name='missionseeker' date='Dec 13 2005, 03:06 AM']or Mary. and the Saints. That one may be a little easier. [right][snapback]823028[/snapback][/right][/quote] ok, what about mary and the saints? why we pray to them? or perhaps one of the marian dogmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Why we pray to them to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I guess since it is a "practice" thread, you should start with the basics, you know?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 very smart cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 [quote name='missionseeker' date='Dec 14 2005, 02:33 AM']I guess since it is a "practice" thread, you should start with the basics, you know?? [right][snapback]824692[/snapback][/right] [/quote] well, this is supposed to be you practicing your defense of the faith, and me playing devil's advocate so that you can learn how to respond. so, start by telling me, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, why u think we should pray to saints, and i'll tell you, as a "protestant", why its "wrong" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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