Jake Huether Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 It ocurred to me that Protestant disbelief in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is totally similar to non-Christians disbelief in the Divinity of Christ. Non-Catholics ask: How could God be present under the accidents of bread and wine? Non-Chistians ask: How could God be completely human, while at the same time be completely God? Non-Catholics can easily answer the non-Christians. Yet, their answer is the same exact answer to their own question. The necessity of God becoming man is the same as that of bread and wine becoming Christ. God said it was necessary for Christ to die in order to redeem us. Christ said that it was necessary to eat his flesh and drink his blood in order for us to have eternal life within us. The reality of it is the same. How could bread and wine become God? How could He become human! In the "God" scale - is humanity any more Divine than bread and wine? NO! So, is it that hard to believe that bread and wine can become Divine (through the Power of God) any more than God could become human? What's the delio. If you believe Christ is God, then why is it so hard to believe that bread and wine could become Christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Whoa man, that's interesting. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Man, you hit the nail on the head! Although, humanity is more divine than bread on the God Scale, cause we were made in the image and likeness of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willguy Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Very good point. I was at Clyde Convent once, and the nun was telling us about the mosaics in their adoration chapel (which is amesome) and there is a big image of the Incarnation, and she was like, "The Incarnation is the perfect representation of the Eucharist, because it is God descending from heaven to take an earthly form" (or something along those lines). Sr. Dawn ROX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 i would add one thing...... i think a major difficulty that separates God becoming human from Jesus becoming the bread and wine is that in the latter scenario we are eating Jesus (to put it bluntly). i think that whole idea just freaks out alot of non-catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willguy Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Freaked the croud out to, but that didn't stop Him from preaching it. John 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Freaked the croud out to, but that didn't stop Him from preaching it. John 6 And on John 6:66, many left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted December 10, 2003 Author Share Posted December 10, 2003 I don't think we are more Divine. Because one isn't 1/2 Divine or 2/15 Divine. You either are or arn't. That is: God or not God. We are more special, for sure. We are set aside. Different from all creation. We were made in the Divine image. But we aren't Divine (even partially). But I do see what you are saying. The intent was to show that if God could become creation, it doesn't really matter which creation. Anywho. Good point on the eating Christ. That is a bit of a difference. Even so, if God could become man, and we interacted with Him as a human... Then the possibility exists that He COULD become bread and wine, in which case we would interact with Him as food! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 It ocurred to me that Protestant disbelief in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is totally similar to non-Christians disbelief in the Divinity of Christ. Non-Catholics ask: Ho  w could God be present under the accidents of bread and wine? Non-Chistians ask: How could God be completely human, while at the same time be completely God? Non-Catholics can easily answer the non-Christians. Yet, their answer is the same exact answer to their own question. The necessity of God becoming man is the same as that of bread and wine becoming Christ. God said it was necessary for Christ to die in order to redeem us. Christ said that it was necessary to eat his flesh and drink his blood in order for us to have eternal life within us. The reality of it is the same. How could bread and wine become God? How could He become human! In the "God" scale - is humanity any more Divine than bread and wine? NO! So, is it that hard to believe that bread and wine can become Divine (through the Power of God) any more than God could become human? What's the delio. If you believe Christ is God, then why is it so hard to believe that bread and wine could become Christ? That is the most asininely stupid argument I've ever heard. God could become man because Man is made in the image of God, and in Christ, God restored that image to its fullness again! Bread is NOT made in the image of God!! Try again, Jake...ddddddddddddddd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Man made in the image of God doesn't even come INTO Jake's post ICTHUS. Read again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Man made in the image of God doesn't even come INTO Jake's post ICTHUS. Read again. He's playing devil's advocate... I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 He's playing devil's advocate... I think. Partly, yes. Man made in the image of God doesn't even come INTO Jake's post ICTHUS. Read again It should have, if he wasn't presenting a totally see-through argument. It's got more holes than a sieve!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 What I think is at the core of what Jake is saying is this: If God can do anything and we all believe that he became man, then to believe that he can also change bread into Himself should not be so far of a stretch (comparatively). Both are God-to-Matter transformations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozencell Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I would just like to simply say that I have been wondering about the exact reasoning behind this and it could not have been put any more simple or understandable. Thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Alright! The Ultimate Team, FAITH and REASON triumph again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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