Latino Christians

[Justified Saint]

A lot is being made over Latino immigration (especially coming from the southern border). The effects from immigration have been profound and will continue to be so even more dramatically as the country becomes increasingly diverse. There are already over 40 million Latinos in the country and by 2050 Latinos will be a majority in the state of California.

Many citizens of Latin America have a strong religious awareness as can often be the case in poorer countries, though the reverse can be true as well. Most of Latin America, of course, is Roman Catholic.

The voice of the Latino vote is becoming increasingly louder: Latinos are mostly morally conservative and they care about religious and family values.

Can the Latino population give this nation a renewed sense of Chrisitan identity? How does/will the Catholic Church's identity relate to this changing demographic? How does the Church address the fact that Latinos are becoming more likely to convert to Protestantism as they become more assmiliated? In light of the growing pentecostalism and evangelicalism of Latino religion, how relevant is the Catholic/Protestant model?

A lot of questions, I know, but these, I think, are important questions that will need addressing.

[dicallidra]

Latinos moral conservatives??? where would one get that idea? Most Latinos lose their faith when the come here. Not only that but since most of them are poor, they vote mostly for the godless democrats who will give out more free stuff than the republicans

[Justified Saint]

dicallidra,

Your post is severely misinformed. You assume that all Democrats are godless and that all Latinos vote for Democrats. If you hadn't noticed, Republicans made historic gains among Latinos in '04. Yes, Latinos fit the profile of most historic immigration groups in that they are largely poor and vote Democrat. But there is also another term to keep in mind, assimilation. Ever heard of it?

Likewise, your assertion that Latinos "lose" their faith is confused, unless you mean by this that Latinos in the States are more likely to change religious denominations or affiliation, another matter entirely. Recent survey data confirms the religiousity and the moral conservatism of Latinos on issues like homosexuality, abortion, and prayer in school.

Let's try to avoid uneducated generalizations, if at all possible.

[Matty_boy]

Explain why all of the counties along the texas border were blue counties during the last presidential election. The people in favor of immigration control vote republican to protect their lives, the immigrants vote democrat to expand their "rights".

Only generalizations from Justified Saint are not uneducated. Any that disagree with his are uneducated, yet there wasn't a single footnote, link, reference, or citation.

[Justified Saint]

This thread is not about illegal immigration. If people want to discuss that then I am sure someone can make a new thread. Of course, you make some very dubious statements about voting habits, but this is not the place to address them. Let's try to stay on topic.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Justified Saint

[rkwright]

wow this thread took a harsh turn rather quickly

I'm not going to lie...I'm pretty distrubed by the 'godless democrats' line.. not cool

[dicallidra]

[quote name='Justified Saint' date='Dec 5 2005, 09:39 PM']dicallidra,

Your post is severely misinformed.  You assume that all Democrats are godless and that all Latinos vote for Democrats.  If you hadn't noticed, Republicans made historic gains among Latinos in '04.  Yes, Latinos fit the profile of most historic immigration groups in that they are largely poor and vote Democrat.  But there is also another term to keep in mind, assimilation.  Ever heard of it?

Likewise, your assertion that Latinos "lose" their faith is confused, unless you mean by this that Latinos in the States are more likely to change religious denominations or affiliation, another matter entirely.  Recent survey data confirms the religiousity and the moral conservatism of Latinos on issues like homosexuality, abortion, and prayer in school.             

Let's try to avoid uneducated generalizations, if at all possible.
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"Uneducated Generalizations"? Lets look at one of your uneducated generalizations. you say most latinos are morally conservative. really?I believe i said that latinos vote mostly democrat which can be easily demonstrated to be true.

"NCLR’s paper examines a variety of exit poll data that show a range of support among Latinos: 31-44% for President George Bush and 53-67% for Senator John Kerry." [url="http://www.nclr.org/content/news/detail/28217/"]http://www.nclr.org/content/news/detail/28217/[/url]

Obviously not all Latinos vote Democrat, but apparently most do Like I said before, it is likely because democrats give out more free candy Latinos may be moral conservatives, but they sure don't vote that way. IMHO, the reason the GOP made historic gains was because they promised millions of illegals a reward for breaking in to our country..........amnesty!

As for "godless democrats" I believe i misworded my thoughts. Everyone has a god, even pagans. Democrats (generally ) believe that slaughtering 45 million children is no-biggie. I certainly do not want the god of anyone who believes infanticide is OK.

[Era Might]

I think the "westernization" of Latin American immigrants is a serious problem. The superficial consumer culture in the United States can easily make a third world immigrant forget where they came from, so to speak. The universality of the Catholic Church is easily forsaken for the decidedly American entity of Protestantism. Mega Churches and "name it claim it" are mighty temptations for someone who has come from such humble means.

John Paul recognized all this, of course, and fought strenuously against distorted capitalism. I think the answer is, certainly, to provide concrete assistance to immigrants (eg, job placement, language skills, etc), but also to communicate the inherent spiritual bankruptcy of consumerism.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Era Might

[beatty07]

I've lived 2 of the last five months in Mexico...Cuernavaca and a bit of Juarez. I've taught religion to first-generation immigrant high school kids in North Chicago.

My experience is pretty much limited to Mexico, so I'll just talk about that nation. Mexicans have an extraordinary faith. John Paul II rightly praised Mexico..."siempre fiel."

Partly because the nation has historically been so overwhelmingly Catholic, catachesis is generally quite poor. There's not much motivation. You don't have to know how to defend your faith, and you don't need a justification for being Catholic. Everybody is.

The big question now is whether the Church can shift her pastoral strategy as amazingly rapidly as younger Mexicans are shifting their cultural lights. They watch the same TV we do and listen to much of the same music... and they don't share their parent's notion that they necessarily have to be faithful Catholics because they are Mexicanos.

I don't think the Catholic/Protestant binary is applicable, if you mean Protestant to exclude evangelicals and pentecostals. I've got a lot of theories about why. Some big ones have to do with an aversion to authority learned through centuries of abysmal governments. There's also a cultural affinity for things that are pure and simple; evangelicalism and pentecostalism can successfully market themselves as simplified, pure Christianity.

I think it's absolutely crucial that the Catholic Church in the US bend over backwards to convince every Latino immigrant that we desperately desire them in our community. And that we greatly admire the religious culture they bring with them. Hang Guadalupe everywhere... it's tough to overestimate the power of that image. Many dioceses are mandating study of Spanish for every seminarian...that's a great idea.

JS is right that Latinos vote conservative for primarily moral reasons, but for economic as well. The conservative enshrinement of enterprise and bootstrap-pulling is often why they came here. Whichever party can convince Latinos that they are more pro-family, will win the vote every time.

I propose a different reason for the blue line on the border. I just got back from a week in El Paso / Juarez, and the suffering and injustice that are built up around that triple-fence are staggering. Families are being torn apart, and people who gave up everything and risked their lives to get here are told they can't stay because they're poor. That is our policy. So if the Republicans continue to take their current line about immigration, they just aren't going to look so good to the people who live next to that fence.

[beatty07]

[quote name='dicallidra' date='Dec 6 2005, 01:11 AM']Obviously not all Latinos vote Democrat, but apparently most do  Like I said before, it is likely because democrats give out more free candy   Latinos may be moral conservatives, but they sure don't vote that way. IMHO, the reason the GOP made historic gains was because they promised millions of illegals a reward for breaking in to our country..........amnesty![right][snapback]812955[/snapback][/right]
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If someone wasn't bound and determined to give you the benefit of the doubt, they might say that that free candy comment is ugly and racist. I assume you didn't mean that...but I sure can't figure out what you do mean.

And you might see things a little differently if immigration policy directly determined 1) whether you can keep sending money to your family so they can eat three square meals a day, and 2) whether they will ever be able to join you so your kids can have a chance at not being poor someday. I don't see how voting according to these two issues deserves smug and contemptuous comments.

Money sent home from the US is the fourth largest source of external revenue for the nation of Mexico. Just think about that for a second.

[tojo]

[quote name='Justified Saint' date='Dec 5 2005, 05:10 PM']How does the Church address the fact that Latinos are becoming more likely to convert to Protestantism as they become more assmiliated?  In light of the growing pentecostalism and evangelicalism of Latino religion, how relevant is the Catholic/Protestant model? 
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Bring them the Renewal!!!!!!!! The power of the Spirit in the heart of the Church!!!!!

[Socrates]

[quote name='beatty07' date='Dec 5 2005, 10:39 PM']Partly because the nation has historically been so overwhelmingly Catholic, catachesis is generally quite poor.  There's not much motivation.  You don't have to know how to defend your faith, and you don't need a justification for being Catholic.  Everybody is.
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This statement shows an ignorance of Mexico's history. Several weeks ago, at Sunday mass, the priest gave an inspiring sermon about the life of a martyr in Mexico who has been beatified (unfortunately, I forget his name.) Despite the Catholic religion of most of the population, Mexico has often had a virulently anti-Catholic government. The Mexican government in the early decades of this century was fanatically anti-Catholic and atheist, and sought nothing less than to wipe out the Church in Mexico. Practicing the Catholic Faith was illegal, and many priests and religious were martyred.

While it is true that today's generation of Mexicans does not have to face this persecution, one cannot claim that Mexican Catholics have never faced challenges against their Faith, nor that Catholics have always had it easy there!

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Dec 6 2005, 06:35 PM']This statement shows an ignorance of Mexico's history.  Several weeks ago, at Sunday mass, the priest gave an inspiring sermon about the life of a martyr in Mexico who has been beatified (unfortunately, I forget his name.)  Despite the Catholic religion of most of the population, Mexico has often had a virulently anti-Catholic government.  The Mexican government in the early decades of this century was fanatically anti-Catholic and atheist, and sought nothing less than to wipe out the Church in Mexico.  Practicing the Catholic Faith was illegal, and many priests and religious were martyred.

While it is true that today's generation of Mexicans does not have to face this persecution, one cannot claim that Mexican Catholics have never faced challenges against their Faith, nor that Catholics have always had it easy there!
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Blessed Miguel Pro, Pray for us!