Is the God of Christianity and Islam the Same?

[White Knight]

The correct answer is absolutely not.


Theres Simlairities between beliefs and such, but this doesn ot mean Christians and Muslims worship the same God.


I'll post later with my reasons.

[God's Errand Girl]

Here's how I have difficulty reconciling that we both worship the same God--

The only way that you can identify an individual is by his/her unique characteristics. The characteristics that Islam ascribes to Allah are consistent with a different individual. And very few characteristics that Islam ascribes to God are consistent with who we Christians recognize as God.

Edited January 14, 2006 by God's Errand Girl

[Krostandt]

From another and eastern stand point I would say, no we do not worship the same God, but of course I'm also going to say that I have no idea who they worship and to say so is not my place. However, I do know this, their God is different from the Christian God in that he is not Trinitarian and this is a vital difference and would undoubtly make it a differnt God they are offering praise to. For that matter, one could even argue that Orthodox and Catholics worship a different God as there is a different understanding about his nature and the three persons. Anyways, though back to the questions, if they do not worship a God made up of three persons of the same essense, one of whom came down to earth and was incarnated, I think it's safe enough to say that they do not worship the same God.

[Circle_Master]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Dec 5 2005, 06:18 PM']Islam is not analogus to Mormonism, because Mormonism is polytheistic.

Christians and Muslims share a common basic understanding of who God is, that he is one, that he is eternal, and that he is almighty. We worship the same God, although Muslims, like Jews, do not know him as a trinity of persons, but rather, as a oneness of nature.
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My God is not one who says He will give blessing for suicide. Nor is my God one who produces a culture of fear and blood.

My God is a God of love for His people. He hates sin, and is completely just, and also grants mercy and grace on a people who are undeserving. I do not live in fear of the day I die, I live with joy knowing who my creator is and knowing that He has saved me.

So the answer is no, I do not worship the God of the muslims, nor do they worship my God. Monotheism does NOT mean that all 'single-god' religions worship the same god. It just means they think there is one creator. If I made a religion that worshipped Satan as the only deity in existance and the only reason some good exists is because his power is limited in scope, is Satan also the same god Christians worship?

[Era Might]

There's not much I can say in response, as we are operating under different underlying principles.

For Biblical and philosophical reasons, the Catholic Church does accept Jews and Muslims as fellow believers in the one, true God, despite many deficiencies in revealed knowledge.

Your hypothetical Satanism would not qualify, as we know by reason that God is almighty. It is written on the human heart. A Satan "limited in power" thus could not be this God who is revealed through reason.

Edited January 14, 2006 by Era Might

[Circle_Master]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Jan 14 2006, 05:43 PM']Your hypothetical Satanism would not qualify, as we know by reason that God is almighty. It is written on the human heart. A Satan "limited in power" thus could not be this God who is revealed through reason.
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God is only almighty in the circles you are used to. Marcion for instance argued for the deity in the Old Testament to be less than Jesus in power. Many Open Theists in the USA argue that God has limited power as well (not sovereign). My comparison still stands. But if you really really think that for monotheism to work God has to be completely sovereign let us pick a different character trait.

Suppose another religion existed that worshipped a god who was known as the father of lies. He demanded child sacrifice, enjoys also fertility cults. This god reigns supreme, and allows some good things to happy for his own whim and pleasure and seeing humans take hope in something he knows to be false.

Is that god the god that you worship as a Catholic? If it is not, then you are worshipping a different God.

Yes some of this issue is in semantics, but it is very important for us to realize that how we know God determines how we will worship Him and what we will grow to be like.

The other reason it is important many of you here would disagree with me. There is a plague in evangelical scholarship called the 'openness of God' that says we do not have a responsibility to make disciples and spread the name of Jesus. It also denies that Jesus is the life, the truth, and the way. It denies that salvation can only come through Jesus Christ. It says that you can gain salvation without knowledge of who Jesus Christ is. It says that all religions are traveling towards God insteading of believing in original sin and depravity and man's tendency to seek evil instead of good. But, that may be another debate for another time, and right now I'm busy.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Circle_Master' date='Jan 14 2006, 10:57 PM']God is only almighty in the circles you are used to.  Marcion for instance argued for the deity in the Old Testament to be less than Jesus in power.  [right][snapback]856319[/snapback][/right]
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Fortunately, I am not a Marcionist. I am a Catholic Christian. And quite content to remain within my circle.

[quote]It says that all religions are traveling towards God insteading of believing in original sin and depravity and man's tendency to seek evil instead of good. But, that may be another debate for another time, and right now I'm busy. [/quote]

For a Catholic exposition on this topic, consult the declaration "Dominus Iesus", published by then-Cardinal Ratzinger and Pope John Paul II.

[quote]but it is very important for us to realize that how we know God determines how we will worship Him and what we will grow to be like.[/quote]

Of course it does. But this is, at root, a question of ontology, with respect to the objective object of worship. The law of God written on every human heart is essential from a Catholic perspective on this matter, and it is precisely why the Church acknowledges Jews and Muslims as fellow believers in the one, true God.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, as an Evangelical. But the Catholic Church has its own perspective, expressed, as I previously cited, by Pope John Paul II.

Edited January 15, 2006 by Era Might

[Guest JeffCR07]

I have a few responses, first to God's Errand Girl, then to Circle_Master:

First, regarding GEG's remarks concerning the differing attributed between the Islamic and Christian deities: In fact, the two are not substantially different. Both are considered to be omniscient, omnipotent, creator [i]ex nihilo[/i], all-Merciful, all-Just, all-Good, all-Great, King of Heaven. In fact, the only major thing we disagree on is the Dogma of the most Holy Trinity, and, from that, the Christological Dogmas. So, to take your example of recognizing a person, it is as if we are both looking at the same person from afar and describing him to each other - our descriptions are exactly the same, save the fact that they think he is only wearing one piece of clothing that covers his body, while we see three.

The point is, when looking at those two descriptions, in that situation, you wouldn't conclude that we are looking at two different people, but rather, that one of us is mistaken about one thing that they "see."

Now, with Circle_Master: you seem to be denying the definition that God is "that than which nothing greater can be conceived." If you (and Open Theists) [i]are[/i] denying this, then you and I worship different Gods. If you [i]do[/i] accept this formula, then you must accept that God is sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, and all the other things that we say about him. I have had an in depth discussion with an Open Theist, though he did not reject God's sovereignty, and I find the position to be logically incoherent. However, he accepted that definition of God, and therefore he and I worship the same God, he is simply mistaken about what follows from that. Similarly, the Muslims worship the same "that than which nothing greater can be conceived" - they simply make mistakes about what follows from that as well.

*Also, please note that Marcion, while claiming to be christian, was not even a monotheist, and so he could not ever be considered to worship the same God as we do.

[Resurrexi]

No the false-idol of Muhammadism is Satan in disguise!

[God's Errand Girl]

[quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jan 15 2006, 09:31 AM']I have a few responses, first to God's Errand Girl, then to Circle_Master:

First, regarding GEG's remarks concerning the differing attributed between the Islamic and Christian deities: In fact, the two are not substantially different. Both are considered to be omniscient, omnipotent, creator [i]ex nihilo[/i], all-Merciful, all-Just, all-Good, all-Great, King of Heaven. In fact, the only major thing we disagree on is the Dogma of the most Holy Trinity, and, from that, the Christological Dogmas. So, to take your example of recognizing a person, it is as if we are both looking at the same person from afar and describing him to each other - our descriptions are exactly the same, save the fact that they think he is only wearing one piece of clothing that covers his body, while we see three.

The point is, when looking at those two descriptions, in that situation, you wouldn't conclude that we are looking at two different people, but rather, that one of us is mistaken about one thing that they "see."
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With all due respect, I think that you are underestimating the importance of the doctrine of the Trinity, as well as its centrality to who God is.
When you remove the triunity of God, you change the complete nature of God.

Edited January 15, 2006 by God's Errand Girl

[Era Might]

[quote name='God's Errand Girl' date='Jan 15 2006, 01:48 PM']With all due respect, I think that you are underestimating the importance of the doctrine of the Trinity, as well as its centrality to who God is.
When you remove the triunity of God, you change the complete nature of God.
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The Trinity refers to a Trinity of PERSONS, not a trinity of NATURES. There is one Divine nature. Jews and Muslims understand God as a single Divine nature, and this (among other reasons) is why the object of their worship is the one, true God.

If ignorance about the Trinity of persons meant idolatry, then the Jews in ancient Israel were idolaters, because they did not know God as a trinity of persons.

Besides all this, we cannot know that God is a trinity of persons by reason. Catholic doctrine upholds the ability to know and follow the law of God through reason alone, and (assuming honest ignorance of Revelation) thereby be saved. Because the first commandment demands worship of the one, true God; and because we cannot know God as a trinity of persons through reason (although we can know the first commandment), then it is not necessary to know the one, true God as a Trinity of persons in order to worship him.

Edited January 15, 2006 by Era Might

[Guest JeffCR07]

Era is correct, GEG, I know that you are well intentioned, but I was neither overestimating nor underestimating the importance of the dogma (strictly speaking it is not a doctrine) of the Trinity. Confusion regarding the number of persons within the Godhead does not preclude one from worshipping the Divine Nature, which is indeed [i]one[/i].

It is certainly true that the Jews and the Mohammedians lack a deep insight into who God is, but they are still worshipping the One True God.

[Oik]

Besides Nostra Aetate and Lumen Gentium, when has the Church ever expressed anything on the Muslim God?

[Circle_Master]

[quote name='God's Errand Girl' date='Jan 15 2006, 12:48 PM']With all due respect, I think that you are underestimating the importance of the doctrine of the Trinity, as well as its centrality to who God is.
When you remove the triunity of God, you change the complete nature of God.
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Beautiful statement and I believe you are dead on. The triunity (I like using that instead of trinity sometimes actually) is an essential belief. When you envision a God that is not a trinity you are attributing a singularity to God that is less than what He is. And because of that you view an idol, and not the Judeo-Christian God.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Circle_Master' date='Jan 16 2006, 11:39 AM']Beautiful statement and I believe you are dead on.  The triunity (I like using that instead of trinity sometimes actually) is an essential belief.  When you envision a God that is not a trinity you are attributing a singularity to God that is less than what He is.  And because of that you view an idol, and not the Judeo-Christian God.
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Except the Judeo God is not a Trinity.