Is the God of Christianity and Islam the Same?

[God's Errand Girl]

I am curious to see what many of you who frequent the debate forum believe about this topic.

If you respond, please do not post opinions only. I wanna see solid, hard evidence from rational argument, the Scriptures, Church doctrine, and even the words of the Koran (if applicable).

I already have a strong standpoint on this topic, but want to remain neutral (at least initially) for the sake of argument.

Alright, go at it!

[rkwright]

I only know a little about islam... but def not enough to quote it... but I thought historically they derive their faith from Ishmael? son of Abram and Hagar... thus I think their God historcially is the same as the Jewish one and ours.

[Era Might]

[quote]We Christians joyfully recognize the religious values we have in common with Islam. Today I would like to repeat what I said to young Muslims some years ago in Casablanca: "[b]We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings his creatures to their perfection[/b]" (Insegnamenti, VIII/2, [1985], p. 497). The patrimony of revealed texts in the Bible speaks unanimously of the oneness of God. Jesus himself reaffirms it, making Israel's profession his own: "The Lord our God, the Lord is one" (Mk 12:29; cf. Dt 6:4-5). This oneness is also affirmed in the words of praise that spring from the heart of the Apostle Paul: "To the king of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen'"(1 Tm 1:17).

We know that in the light of the full Revelation in Christ, this mysterious oneness cannot be reduced to a numerical unity. The Christian mystery leads us to contemplate in God's substantial unity the persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit: each possesses the divine substance whole and indivisible, but each is distinct from the other by virtue of their reciprocal relations.

3. Their relations in no way compromise the oneness of God, as the Fourth Lateran Council explains (1215): "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.... It does not generate, is not begotten and does not proceed" (DS 804). The Christian doctrine on the Trinity, confirmed by the Councils, explicitly rejects any form of "tritheism" or "polytheism". In this sense, i.e., with reference to the one divine substance, there is significant correspondence between Christianity and Islam.

However, this correspondence must not let us forget the difference between the two religions. We know that the unity of God is expressed in the mystery of the three divine Persons. Indeed, since he is Love (cf. 1 Jn 4:8), God has always been a Father who gives his whole self in begetting the Son, and both are united in a communion of love which is the Holy Spirit. This distinction and compenetration (perichoresis) of the three divine Persons is not something added to their unity but is its most profound and characteristic expression.


--Pope John Paul II

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MUSLM.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MUSLM.HTM[/url][/quote]

Edited December 3, 2005 by Era Might

[rkwright]

after a quick google...

from wikipedia (I know some people have problems with this! but anyways!)

[quote]Quoting from the Qur'an, sura An-Nisa 171:

    "O People of the Scripture! Do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was only a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity". You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. God suffices as Lord and Master." [/quote]

so maybe we believe in the same God, but as far as the persons of God, they would naturally not believe in them. So I guess if we're talking God the Son, the answer is no...

[Paphnutius]

When Islam professes the Trinitarian God then yes. Until then we may dialogue on our shared belief in a one God, but must still recongize the vital difference of Christ.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 3 2005, 06:58 PM']When Islam professes the Trinitarian God then yes. Until then we may dialogue on our shared belief in a one God, but must still recongize the vital difference of Christ.
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yea but do the Jews profess a trinity? yet I would be very hesistant to say we worship a different God than them.

is it possible to say that we worship the same God, just we know him more fully?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

the jews worship the same god as we do, but they just do not know God's true nature. moslems im going to say no.

[Socrates]

[quote name='rkwright' date='Dec 3 2005, 06:19 PM']yea but do the Jews profess a trinity?  yet I would be very hesistant to say we worship a different God than them.

is it possible to say that we worship the same God, just we know him more fully?
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If the Muslims worship the same God, they have a lot of false ideas about Him. And I don't consider Mohammed to have been a follower or a prophet of the True God.

[Aloysius]

as the Catechism says, they profess to hold the same belief as Abraham and they acknowledge the Creator.

meaning they intend to worship the same God. God certainly sees that, God certainly approves of that over the worshipping of idols et cetera, but true worship of the One True God can only be initiated by God Himself, and Christians do not believe God instituted the religion of Islam nor that he instituted the ways they attempt to worship Him, in that sense we can say that it is not true worship of God.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 3 2005, 07:49 PM']as the Catechism says, they profess to hold the same belief as Abraham and they acknowledge the Creator. 

meaning they intend to worship the same God.  God certainly sees that, God certainly approves of that over the worshipping of idols et cetera, but true worship of the One True God can only be initiated by God Himself, and Christians do not believe God instituted the religion of Islam nor that he instituted the ways they attempt to worship Him, in that sense we can say that it is not true worship of God.
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oo interesting to come at it from the angle of the word 'worship'

[Nathan]

Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship one God, the God of Abraham. What that God is all about and what He has revealed to us is where our differences lie.

Muslims see Jesus as a prophet sent from God (note: [i]not[/i] God Himself) to preach Islam, but that people misinterpreted/corrupted the message and it became a false religion called Christianity; and so then God had to send another prophet, named Mohammed, to set things straight. Christians see Mohammed as a false prophet who laid the foundation for a false religion called Islam. Jews, of course, reject both.

[Aloysius]

"Islam was something like a Christian heresy. The early heresies had been full of mad reversals and evasions of the Incarnation, rescuing their Jesus from the reality of his body even at the expense of the sincerity of his soul."

"To do Mohammed justice, his main attack was against the idolatries of Asia. Only he thought, just as the Arians did and just as the Unitarians do, that he could attack them better with a greater approximation to plain theism. What distinguishes his heresy from anything like an Arian or Albigensian heresy is that, as it sprang up on the borders of Christendom, it could spread outwards to a barbaric world."

-GK Chesterton

even before I read Chesterton, I used to identify Islam as something of a Christian heresy, look it up in my posts years ago I'm pretty sure I mentioned something about it here-- that Mohomad studied Judaism and Christianity, accepted that they were dealing with God but then disagreed and basically founded a kind of heresy denying the Trinity.

anyway, yep, it is a certain very odd type of Christian heresy. if it weren't for Islam, Christianity would probably have advanced through that area. Imagine: the whole muslim world being Christian. quite sad that Mohammad had to mess things up the way he did. The two worst charecters in all of Christinaity in my opinion are Mohommad and Henry VIII. if not for them, Catholocism would be able to claim about 53% of the world.

[PadreSantiago]

it's the same god.

[Nathan]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 3 2005, 07:41 PM']if it weren't for Islam, Christianity would probably have advanced through that area.  Imagine: the whole muslim world being Christian.  quite sad that Mohammad had to mess things up the way he did.  The two worst charecters in all of Christinaity in my opinion are Mohommad and Henry VIII.  if not for them, Catholocism would be able to claim about 53% of the world.[right][snapback]810062[/snapback][/right][/quote]

Perhaps God's plan includes allowing certain people like Mohammed and Henry VIII to succeed in what they do for a reason -- namely, to challenge us and shake us a bit, to make faith in the Church not so easy. I could be way off base, but it's just a thought.

[Aloysius]

as long as you're talking about His passive will's allowance of free will.