grace

[M.SIGGA]

if grace is a free gift from God alone, how does doctrine and/or scripture instruct that graces can be earned or won for ourselves or someone else? there is a priest i know who keeps talking about winning graces for other people, and i'm not really following. I always thought God was the sole dispenser of grace. thanks.

[Dave]

Well, "earn" isn't a good way to describe it, but if we win something, it's essentially a free gift. Having said that, while grace is a free gift, whether for ourselves or someone else, God still wants us to pray for graces. God knows what we need even before we ask Him, but He expects us to trust Him so much that we actually come to Him and ask. And we don't just ask for graces via prayer; we also ask for them via offering up our daily duties and sacrifices for ourselves and others.

I hope I've understood your question; please let me know if I haven't.

[M.SIGGA]

thanks dave, but i am looking for something a little more specific, well maybe if i simplify the question into 2 parts; where in doctrine/scripture is grace via good works explained, and also how those graces are distributed to those we intercede and sacrifice for? i can't seem to find it. The more I think about the question is that it's basically the original 95 thesis question. thanks.

[Paphnutius]

I seem to be on a Catechism rampage today:

2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.


After earth's exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone.... In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself. 63


What this basically means is that the only way we merit grace is through the merits of Christ. When we act in faith, hope and love through Christ, His merits on the cross ensure our good works bearing fruit. It is vital to keep in mind that it is not from our own works, but by connecting our work with what Christ did for us. It is like attaching your name to Christ's if you will. You do a good work in faith in Christ, and because of His merits, your works bear fruit.

Like it says, you clothe yourself with Christ's justice.

I hope that helped.

Another point to keep in mind is this: we do not merit initial grace of forgiveness or of justification. That is the work of the Holy Spirit through our faith in the sacrament of Baptism.

Edited December 5, 2005 by Paphnutius

[M.SIGGA]

thanks p.

Isn't doing good works with the intention to merit, such as making the jubilee pilgrimage or participating in divine mercy sunday, asking God to see our works, and then count our works to give us grace for the specific intention (a plenary indulgence with the 2 provided examples)? If we would ask God at the end of life not to count our works, like the passage says, does this create a contradiction? should one just do good works because they are "good" and pay no heed to merit or winning graces?

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Dec 5 2005, 09:58 PM']Isn't doing good works with the intention to merit, such as making the jubilee pilgrimage or participating in divine mercy sunday, asking God to see our works, and then count our works to give us grace for the specific intention (a plenary indulgence with the 2 provided examples)? If we would ask God at the end of life not to count our works, like the passage says, does this create a contradiction? should one just do good works because they are "good" and pay no heed to merit or winning graces?
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It is better to perform a good work soley because it is good, or because God commands it (making it good). Doing a good work with the intention to merit is not exactly contradictory to this notion (unless the intention is an evil one).

God has created man with a longing and seeking for the Divine. He has given man the gifts and talents for seeking God and entering into a relationship with God. In short, God has destined man for an eternal life with Him. Understanding this, we can see how seeking merit and grace would and is actually in line with God's will for us. He wants us to seek His grace. He wants us to unite our works in faith, hope, and charity to the ultimate work of His Son, because He wants us to come to everlasting life with Him. So seeking grace through merit is not opposed to doing the good for the sake of the good, exactly because it is in line with our nature to seek God out through means availible to us.

As for asking God not to look upon our works: Due to the Fall and our imperfection, every human act has what is called a "negative defect." That means that as hard as we may try, we always fall short of acting perfectly. There is always some perfection lacking in our actions. This is why we ask God not to look on them. (plus our sins probably out weigh our good works). It is better to ask God to look to the perfect action of His Son on the cross instead of our imperfect ones. We then clothe our actions with Christ's sacrifice so that our actions may be acceptable.

I hope that answered your question.

*Keep in mind we cannot merit justification. I only say this because I just got out of a sola fide talk with a non-Catholic who had a hard time understanding we do not believe we merit it.

[Paphnutius]

I am surprised that a militant or scholar has not come to our rescue yet.

[journeyman]

I'm neither, but I don't think you need rescuing . . . it is hard to go wrong with the Catechism as your source . . .

I nattered somewhere recently about perfect contrition and imperfect contrition in the context of dying on the way to confession . . . justice would say "not in a state of grace; next" - mercy would say "you were truly sorry, and on your way to formally repair the breach with the Church when you were untimely removed . . . come on in"

justice is what we "merit"
mercy is what we (hope to) "receive"

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Dec 5 2005, 09:58 PM']thanks p.

Isn't doing good works with the intention to merit, such as making the jubilee pilgrimage or participating in divine mercy sunday, asking God to see our works, and then count our works to give us grace for the specific intention (a plenary indulgence with the 2 provided examples)? If we would ask God at the end of life not to count our works, like the passage says, does this create a contradiction? should one just do good works because they are "good" and pay no heed to merit or winning graces?
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first, i just wanna say that nutty answered these questions marvelously.
i just wanted to emphasize the fact that our good works are meritorious for the sole reason that they are motivated by the grace of God. his grace is at the source of all that is good. all purely human acts merit nothing.

however, there is also a sense in which we work with God to accomplish what is good in this world. Rom 8:28 says "God works for good [i][b]with[/b][/i] those who love him." so, our human will is involved as well. it must be. if it is not, then humans are reduced to robots who simply respond to the whims of their master. yet, even with our will involved, man would not do many good things were it not for the grace of the Lord which motivates and compels him to do so, and in fact no good work is meritorious that is not motivated by grace.

when man is judged "according to his works" this does not mean that the man who can list the most things gets into heaven. it means, those men who were open to the grace of God working in their lives get to heaven. God is interested in the relationship you have with him, and how this relationship was made manifest in your life. if a man, at the end of his life, can be said to have done many good works, this means that we have a man who was open to God's grace and who nurtured his relationship with the Lord. such a man would certainly be deserving of heaven.

so, why is it good for us to do things that we know will grant us an indulgence? well, b/c when we do these things we show the Lord that we are open to his grace moving in our lives. another reason we do these things is that often times they act as a sort of penance for us. making a pilgrimage isn't easy. even reading the bible for fifteen minutes (which also grants you an indulgence) isn't easy for some people. but we do it b/c it is thru penance that we heal the wounds that our sin has caused to the Body of Christ.

how does this help other people? well, graces lead to good works which result in more graces. this fruit is, to speak in an analogous way, "stored up" in what is traditionally referred to as the "treasurey of the saints." the Church, as the incarnational presence of Christ on earth, dispenses graces from this treasury to the faithful. it is b/c of this role of the Church that she is able to grant indulgences to the faithful. Jesus' work alone sufficiently fills it. but, the saints, through their lives of charity and faithfulness, add to this treasury. we do too, every time we heed the call of the Lord and do His Will. as a result, we are in effect aiding both ourselves and our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ to repair the world of the evil of sin whenever we fulfill the requirements of an indulgence.

anyway, i didn't intend to write that much. i kinda get on a soapbox, haha.

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Paphnutius]

See that is what I was talking about...

I was reflecting on this some more tonight and the example par excellence of one's works meriting for others is Christ. His passion merited for us eternal life.

[M.SIGGA]

wow. thankyou both. i'm in a christian philosophy class and have been reading Barth and Kierkegaard and Tillich and their dogmatic criticisms in particular, combined with my priest bringing up the question of grace recently, and these questions keep coming up. it is completely answered. thanks again. God Bless.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 6 2005, 08:23 PM']I am surprised that a militant or scholar has not come to our rescue yet. 
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Yes but you ARE church militant :

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Dec 7 2005, 11:09 AM']Yes but you ARE church militant :
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When did this happen?!

I must say that I am both excited and honored!

But this now means that I have to be more careful with what I say...

THANKS!

[phatcatholic]

i take care of my dawgs