Semalsia Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 How do you know that God is good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 The Eucharist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Well, God is by definition the cause of the existence of all the universe. So the question is, do you believe that the universe, by nature, is good. We as Christians believe that all the physical world, by nature, is good. We explain evil as the deficiency caused in that nature, anything evil is automatically sub-natural, it is automatically something that twists nature, by definition. If you believe the nature of the physical world is good, then the cause of the physical world must also be good (by their fruits you can know them, something evil would not create things that are by nature good, something good would not create things that at their nature are evil). All of this is not so much a proof, but shifting to the premise that the physical world is good by nature. If the physical world is good by nature, then God is good by nature. Accept one premise and it's logical to accept the other. It depends on how you define evil, too. By our definition, evil is not something with a nature in itself, evil is a twisting of good natures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 This is also a question of will, not just nature. If one uses his will in such a way that it is in line with the will of God, then one's action is good. However, if one seeks to perform a function or enact their will in such a manner that it is outside the will of God, then it is evil. For example, it might be fine for me to draw a picture, but if it is revealed to me that God doesn't want me to draw a picture, it would then be evil for me to do so. Drawing a picture isn't fundamentally evil. However, disobeying the will of God is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Aloysius']So the question is, do you believe that the universe, by nature, is good.[/quote] How do you determine whether the universe is good or evil? [quote name='Aloysius']something evil would not create things that are by nature good, something good would not create things that at their nature are evil[/quote] Unless the creation was by accident, but I guess that doesn't apply to God. Edited December 3, 2005 by Semalsia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Easy Answer: Revelation. Though one can also know through reason. God as prefection must be the greatest good. Even Aristotle knew that God is the greatest good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 [quote name='The Joye-O']Drawing a picture isn't fundamentally evil. However, disobeying the will of God is.[/quote] Then let me rephrase my question: why is God's will worth obeying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 God's will is always in line with perfecting the natural. Evil is defined as a deficiency or twisting of nature, then it is clear that NATURE has to be good. God being defined as the cause of all things that exist, if those things have a good nature, then God must be good. The definition of what is perfect nature, and thus what is good, is a whole nother ballgame. But good is defined as the perfection of nature. God is defined as the cause of the nature of all things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 Semalsia, Have you ever read the Summa Theologica by St. Thomas Aquinas? I would highly recommend it. A lot of the questions you have here are addressed by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 God is by his very nature superior, perfect, etc. This is so, because everything in existence comes from him. Therefore, he set the standards. If this were not so God would be inherantly contradictory. So, God must be ontologically superior in every way to Creation. Creation itself, must too be good then, since God is good and created it. However, God gave certain agents within his Creation the freedom to choose to follow his divine order, the functions that they were created to perform or to choose to do something else. Some of the agents chose to do something else, and thus evil was born. Evil isn't so much a thing as it is a distortion of a thing. A mirror is good. A shattered mirror is not good. As fallen Images of God, we are all shattered mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 Aloysius, Are you saying that all things that exist are good, because they exist? Then what is wrong with saying that existence is the same as goodness and that God is good, because he exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 if evil is a deficiency in nature, then perfected nature is good. like I said, this is not so much a proof as shifting to different premises that mean the same thing. you have to accept the premise that evil is a deficiency in nature and that nature is good to say God is good. if you think God is evil, then you would be saying that everything is by nature deficient and twisted, by its nature. that it is not as perfected as it could be, by its nature. this really doesn't make sense, it makes more sense to say that anything that is not good is sub-nature, and thus the nature of everything is good. and if that premise is accepted then the cause of all good things' nature is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted December 3, 2005 Author Share Posted December 3, 2005 [quote]if you think God is evil, then you would be saying that everything is by nature deficient and twisted, by its nature. [/quote] Well, I don't think God is evil. [quote]Have you ever read the Summa Theologica by St. Thomas Aquinas? I would highly recommend it. A lot of the questions you have here are addressed by him.[/quote] I suppose I'll try to find it and take a look then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 "God" as a meaningful term is "that than which nothing greater can be conceived." If I conceive of God as being "evil" or even as being not supremely good, then I could conceive of a being greater than God (namely, a supremely good being). However, refering back to our definition, we find that God can only be that than which nothing greater can be conceived. Therefore, the evil being I was conceiving of before was never God in the first place, and only the supremely Good being can be God. Yours in Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted December 3, 2005 Share Posted December 3, 2005 "God is good!" "All the time!" "All the time!" "God is good!" so there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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