Speaking in tongues

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fluff is my lil lover boy btw.. he speaks pentacostal I dont. I lost my membership card

[The Joey-O]

I am fluff and I will translate...

[The Joey-O]

Alright, I can speak in tongues. I'll just say that off the bat. It's weird, but it seems to do stuff. For example, I've seen people healed (muscle grown back) from someone speaking in tongues. I've seen "demons expelled" through speaking in tongues. Actually, I've only seen 1 demon expelled for certain and it might not have been the speaking in tongues that did it. I can do it at my will, but it doesn't feel right when I do. I feel a "prompting of the Spirit" to do it. It's too strange to articulate what that is. I usually feel I need to do it in worship. I'll whisper it as to not freak people out.

As far as Scriptural proof, there are verses in Galatians and a couple other Pauline Epistles that give regulations to use it. In this manner it is an "exstatic speach" or the "Tongus of Angels". However, Tongues in Acts seems to refer to the ability to speak multiple languages to a crowd without the need to translate. These seem like two different types of Tongues. I've only done the former. However, I have a friend who accidentally did the latter with a Ukranian girl he was trying to hit on while on a mission trip. He ended up converting her to Christianity instead...funny story...too bad I ruined it for you guys...Anyways, I have had a lot of charismatic type experiences. I was actually drawn to Catholicism because it acknowledged spiritual warfare intelligently.

I do not endorse the idea that one needs to speak in tongues to be saved. That's ridiculous, unScriptural and against Tradition. Nor does one need to experience Charismatic type things to be a Christian. I like the analogy that charismatic experiences are the seasoning of faith. If all you have is seasoning, your meal's going to tasted pretty bad.

So, there you have it, my opinion.

In Christ's Love,
JoeyO.

[The Joey-O]

The translation of the Revprodeji, by JoeyO:

Lalala! I like toying with peoples minds! Lalala! Death and singing! Death and singing! Lalalala! I get fat paid! Lalala! Lalalala!\ I dress in blackety black! Lalalala! I'm more bullet-proof than superman! Lalalala! Try not to feel afraid, cuz I'll find you! Lalalalalala! Oh no! It's Mexicans! Quick get the telemarketers to fight back! Lalalala! This is what our tax money goes to! Lalalala! Pranks, tanks and Mexicans! Lalalalala! Ritual and Occultic studies means I see things that make people cry! Lalalala! Shhhhh! Don't tell anybody or you'll die! Lalalala!

fin.

Edited December 5, 2005 by The Joey-O

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i kill u fluff

Edited December 5, 2005 by Revprodeji

[The Joey-O]

Not if the telemarketers help me.

Edited December 5, 2005 by The Joey-O

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whats that? Joey you have a guest at the door

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[Brother Adam]

[quote name='dandy777' date='Dec 5 2005, 07:21 AM']This is a topic that fascinates me a lot since I myself have been exposed to this movement for various years.

Let me share my point of view:

Praying with other christians during a service is not sinful. Christ wants us to be united in one Spirit, the same Spirit of God. Even though there are many differences there are many more similarities between Catholics and non-Catholics.  Besides that is what places like Taize` and Ecumenical meetings are all about.

Speaking in tongues is a gift given by God to the individual and not induced by another person. As all other gifts, one must receive it, contemplate on it and grow in it. So after receiving it, one must find some spiritual guidance preferably priests and/or other people who have received the same gift to develop it more and more.

It is very interesting to note as well, that this is the only gift that God gives us for ourdelves and not for others. All other gifts are given to us to help others grow in their faith whereas this is given to the individual to edify himself/herself more and grow closer to God.

[i]"Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. [b]He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself[/b], but he who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified." (1 Corithians 14:1-5)[/i]

The gift of prophecy is very important as well as St. Paul says here and so speaking in tongues is good to be practised within a congragation. However, I always suggest that a priest would help out in the interpretation and intercession of such prophecies so to make sure that it is truly Spirit-led.

With regards to what cmotherofpirl was writing, there is a difference between the gift the gift of tongues received by the Apostles on Pentecost, better known as glossolalia, and the one other people recieve.  The Apostles and disciples spoke in different languages and this obviously was a clear manifestation of the Holy Spirit considering the fact that most of them were illiterate whereas the gift that most people receive is the ability of letting the Holy Spirit pray through them by producing strange groanings.  People who have never experienced this will find it hard to believe but that is exactly what happens.

Besides, someone else said that there are no Biblical reference to being "slain in the Spirit". Okay, so let me explain this is simple terms. When the human being (by being I mean body, mind and soul) chooses to open his heart by freewill for the love of God, there is a transcendental experience where the human being comes in contact with the divinity of God. Every person is different and experiences it in different ways. Some people cry and just can't explain why, others suddenly become silent and feel that they are surrounded by and filled by a sense of reverence, others fall to their knees as they are awestruck, others just can't stand on their feet and are "slain in the Spirit". The human body can't resist and/or behave noramlly when it comes in contact with the Glory of God.

As regards the Biblical references, there are two that come to mind. One of them is the end of St. John's Gospel. When the Roman soldiers (remember they were pagans, so they weren't influenced by Jewish tradition) went to the Gethsemane to arrest Jesus ...

[i]"Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. So Judas came to the grove, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.

Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Who is it you want?"

"Jesus of Nazareth," they replied.

"I am he," Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) [b]When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground. [/b]

Again he asked them, "Who is it you want?" And they said, "Jesus of Nazareth."

"I told you that I am he," Jesus answered. "If you are looking for me, then let these men go." This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me." (John 18:2-9)[/i]

The soldier didn't fall to the ground because he tripped over something for sure.  And we all know that ther is always a reason why Jesus asks a question twice.

Apart from that there is Saul's conversion into Paul. Again another Jew who used to persecute Christians. So he was not influenced by Christians for sure. There is no horse mentioned in the Bible. That was a traditional icon that came into life after several church paintings depicting St. Paul on a horse.

[i]"About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. [b]I fell to the ground [/b]and heard a voice say to me, 'Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?' (Acts 22:6-7)[/i]
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If you are stating that 'slain in the spirit' is simply being in awe of the power of God, as these biblical passages refer to, then this is different than what most charasmatics define it as. this 'definition' of being 'slain in the spirit' is hardly a recognized charism by the Church or Scripture.

I've heard the whole 'tongues of angels' thing before, but most charasmatics around here will admit there is no interpreter around, ever, when they decide to pray in tongues and they haven't the foggiest clue what they are saying. I've heard on several occassions though accounts of protestant pentacostals who were 'praying in tongues' turned out that they were blaspheming God. One charasmatic here described her experiences as 'opening herself to uknown spirits' allowing 'God and angels' to work through her. Now that has red lights painted all over it.

[N/A Gone]

besides the sarcasim joeyo did write some good stuff there

read it...

all of you..

read it

[tojo]

nm

Edited December 5, 2005 by tomasio127

[son_of_angels]

I suggest all of you consider things this way;

If, in the middle ages, you suggested the idea of "speaking in tongues" as it is known in the charismatic churches/groups people would not know what the heck you were talking about. Likewise we do not have the exact form of hierarchy which the apostolic church had in its time, nor was the church, in apostolic times, a significantly Roman endeavor.

This is the beauty of Catholicism, we do not CREATE forms of religious expression, we RECEIVE them, from the properly constituted forms of religious tradition (Church councils, custom, etc.). Otherwise, Christianity itself becomes absurd in its application of such an ancient text as the Bible and as a religion itself. Christianity MUST BE Catholicism or it is foolishness.

Here is my point, the charismatic renewal, even that in the Catholic Church, did not stem from any legitimate movement in tradition (it would have been foreign even to the Fathers of Vatican II) or custom. Hence, it is not revealed to us, and therefore not a good marker of the faith.

Pray to our Lady! Pray to her the Spouse of the Holy Spirit! This is a revealed means of receiving the counsel of the Paraclete, more pleasing than a thousand "charismatic renewal" meetings.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Dec 3 2005, 01:23 PM']My friend is multilingual and Pentacostal.  She was at a worship service, and a lot of people were praying in tongues.  These were real human languages, not just babble talk.  She heard people speaking Russian, Chinese and Arabic, 3 languages she is very proficient in, and she did not hear people praising God.  Instead, they were shouting out horrible curses and blasphemies.
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[quote name='tomasio127' date='Dec 3 2005, 01:29 PM']If you friend herself was Pentecostal, she wouldn't have made that claim.
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excuse me??? so if she was really Pentecostal, she would have ignored what she understood when she heard fellow Pentecostals speaking in tongues??

no, it seems she was pentecostal and proficient in many languages, and when she went to her pentecostal church and heard people talking in tongues she recognized bad things being said.

tongues are a blessing intended to reverse the curse at the Tower of Babel, when we were scattered and could not understand each other. It is the supernatural component to the Church's unity from God. of course, since it is an extra-ordinary gift that God only uses at special times, such as at Pentecost, the Church has a natural ordinary sign of her reversal of the Tower of Babel as well- Latin. :

but when people are all in a church and begin to speak aloud many different languages and none of them understand each other, what is this more a sign of?? the reversal of the Babel curse? or the curse itself?

if it truly is a tongue to speak to God the unspeakable utterances of your heart, why is it done aloud with many others to hear? St. Paul was wise to advise people not to speak tongues aloud unless there was an interpreter-- because to speak aloud in tongues not natural to yourself that no one else understands is the sign of a preterenature, not the sign of supernature. meaning the devil.

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joeyo=catholic whom has spoke in tongues

revprodeji=sits in corner and wets himself, whispering"they made me do it, they made me"

[Balthazor]

You guys have all given such great insights.
I think that the Catholic Charismatic movement is great. A little off my faith style but as long as it is orthodox I will support it.
I am a big beleiver in the Charismatic gifts of the spirit. I really think that there are more mystics out there than we know of, and do not reveal themselves because ... well to be blunt people would think that they are crazy or making it up. I hope that the Chaismatic movement creates a little more mystic friendly environment. Maybe it will hep people understand these gifts better and not be so fearful or skeptical of them. Not just tongues either but all of the gifts.

As for the worship service in question.. it was on a Wednesday night and I never stopped going to Catholic Mass and I did not take communion there even if it was offered so I think I am OK with that. It was more of a youth night than anything else but as far as I have heard their normal services are not much more than what I saw... a lot of singing and preaching and little to no ritual at all. So you all can rest easy. I never left the faith or even wavered in it.

I geuss I was just wondering if what I saw was for real. Ya know? I mean at the time I had never heard or seen anything like it. It made me wonder if the tongues they were speaking in were produced of God's will or of their own will. I beleive in "ask and you shall receive" but I never thought that it meant that what you ask for would be instananeous and that God would always say yes, even if it is a faith gift ..like speaking in tongues. This has had me stumped for a long time, it is not my place to judge since I do not know their hearts, however I think being skeptical is healthy otherwise we would all change religions ever time someone knocked on our door.

By the way, I really liked the comment about the spice in faith life. Too. Kudos: very good analogy. A meal and a faith life should be balanced; even the most gifted of Mystics went through dry spells and if they would have only relied on the "spice", that spiritual rush they got and not the whole meal they might not have remained true to their fatih or true to God. I mean praying even when you feel like God is not listening and you don't get the usual "rush" or warm fuzzies is a challenge.

I am so happy at all your repsonses.
I hope you guys keep replying because I am really enjoying all that you have to say.

balty

[tojo]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Dec 5 2005, 12:12 PM']excuse me??? so if she was really Pentecostal, she would have ignored what she understood when she heard fellow Pentecostals speaking in tongues??
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No, I mean I believe someone along the way in the telling of that story was lying.