Priest denying absolution

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Marieteresa' date='Nov 29 2005, 09:02 PM']If you state that its been such and such time since your last confession.  Or if he has seen you at confession before...I am guessing
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Simple solution: go behind the screen to preserve your anonymity. Face-to-face is not mandatory last time I checked. Unless your voice is familiar or if he probes you for the frequency of your sin(s), he won't know if you are confessing the same sins over and over.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Nov 29 2005, 08:06 PM']i got denied absolution because sometimes i confess things that aren't really sins
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If it's not a sin, then should you really be worried about it? I think that is what Fr. Cappie may have been referring to in his post:

[quote]However I do get concerned with bad catechesis regarding the Sacrament. There are many people I have come across who suffer greatly from scruples because of the things taught to them about confessing, it has been torture to them not being able to go without confession fo a day.[/quote]

[journeyman]

[quote name='cappie' date='Nov 29 2005, 09:49 PM']

We have to be clean from all Mortal sin. Confession of devotion as Karl Rahner called it has its place and I am a supporter of such.
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Can you elaborate? "Confession of devotion" sounds like a term with a specific meaning that isn't clear to me.

One aspect of Rahner's writings that I think I picked up was that if there is a choice between doing something . . . and doing something sacramentally . . . he preferred it be done sacramentally.

Thus our venial sins can be washed away through the use of the sacramental (using the holy water in the font when making the sign of the cross).

Is this a term which means confessing one's devotion - rather than one's sins - in the confessional, and since there are no sins to absolve, no absolution is given, but the statement has been made in a sacramental setting, and therefore the graces are still received?


well, let me go read this article and see if it helps explain

[url="http://ldysinger.stjohnsem.edu/@texts2/1960_rahner/05-TI3-13_frq_cnf.htm"]http://ldysinger.stjohnsem.edu/@texts2/196...-13_frq_cnf.htm[/url]

THE MEANING of FREQUENT CONFESSION of DEVOTION
Karl Rahner, Theological Investigations, vol 3, ch. 13, pp. 177-189

[journeyman]

well, I certainly didn't mean to put an end to the discussion

my hypothesis above is partially correct, I think, but essentially missed the mark. In ten rather dense pages, Rahner seems to be saying that the sacrament of confession serves multiple purposes . . . the washing away of venial sin can be received in other ways, spiritual direction can be received in other ways, but the regular appearance at confession reflects our recognition that grace is a gift from a forgiving God, and not the result of our own actions.

"It is not the good, contrite man who causes the remission of sins, but God's free mercy."

". . . the earthly judgment of God shows at any rate that God's answer must be added to man's contrition, so that He may have the last word and man may bow humbly before His judgment."

" . . . yet every venial sin is in a true sense 'a spot and wrinkle' on the Bride of Christ. It is an obstruction to the love of God and as such it is also an obstacle to the free and radiant development in this member of the Church of that love which is poured out by the divine Spirit."

". . . if the injustice done to it [the Body of Christ - the Church] is to be repaired, then this could not happen more meaningfully and impressively than by acknowledging the sin before the priest, who is the representative of the community of Christ-believers, by having it forgiven by him and atoning for it by the penance imposed, in order to make reparation for the injury done to the Body of Christ. To this extent, confession of devotion is not merely a continued practice of the love of God but also a unique form of sacramental love of neighbor and a visible turning to the visible Body of Christ which is the Church."

"That we might meet the reconciling God as often as possible in the way in which the God of 'un-owed' grace reveals himself most clearly: this is the meaning of frequent confession of devotion."

[rkwright]

question... if there is Baptism of desire, is their also confession of desire? Take the same example, on the way to confession of a mortal sin I am killed in a car wreck...

or am I just out of luck. I mean choosing to moratally sin almost is like taking your life in your own hands, so if you die and go to hell, well thats the risk you ran?

[tojo]

[quote name='Marieteresa' date='Nov 29 2005, 07:59 PM']Hey folks,

This is my first post on the debate table...So here goes!  I am just wondering is it ok that a priest can deny absolution if one goes to confession more than once a month?  Is this the norm everywhere??  I personally disagree with this because I sometimes go to confession more than once a month.  Just wondering if some of you guys agree or disagree with this.

In JMJ
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Goodness, there have been several times, especially when I first came into the Church, when I went to confession every few days........

Now I tend to go every week or every other week, depends on whether I have mortally sinned. Now it's been three weeks, and I plan to go next week regardless of whether I sin mortally. If I didn't mortally sin, I'd go only once a month. When I do, I'm hunting Father down.....

[journeyman]

[quote name='rkwright' date='Dec 3 2005, 05:20 PM']question... if there is Baptism of desire, is their also confession of desire?  Take the same example, on the way to confession of a mortal sin I am killed in a car wreck...

or am I just out of luck.  I mean choosing to moratally sin almost is like taking your life in your own hands, so if you die and go to hell, well thats the risk you ran?
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I think that opens the door to "perfect contrition" "imperfect contrition" and Divine mercy. I think where there is perfect contrition, with an intent to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible; an untimely demise on the way to confession may be sufficient . . . but I'll be happy to have someone who knows these concepts inside and out clarify

[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm[/url]

Contrition

1451 Among the penitent's acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called "perfect" (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

1453 The contrition called "imperfect" (or "attrition") is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin's ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52

50 Council of Trent (1551): DS 1676.
51 Cf. Council of Trent (1551): DS 1677.
52 Cf. Council of Trent (1551): DS 1678; 1705.


One thing I remember from one of Father Corapi's presentations is that "fear of hell" is not perfect contrition - it's "good enough" if you make it to confession, but not if you don't

[tojo]

Yeah, I guess anyone in their right mind would fear Hell....