Family and the Church

[Church Punk]

I have noticed for a while, that my parents and family have not been doing things at mass that are required, it is almost as though it is a lack reverence towards the Church and the Sacraments.

My parents, who are practicing Catholic with the exception of my Dad, he is Anglican but does not practice and comes to mass with my mother, but has never gone through RCIA and does not see the need to convert, (he does not receive communion or anything wrong like that during mass...but this is beyond the point I am talking about right now).

I notice a complete lack of reverence or perhaps it is ignorance with my mother, sister and bother before, during and after mass as follows:

A) They do not go to confession very often or ever anymore. My sister has gone a handful of times in the past 2 or 3 years I can not remember the last time my Mother has gone, in fact I can not remember her going ever! My brother now rejects most of the church’s teachings on the mass, adoration and confession.

B) Upon entering a church or crossing the alter, they do no genuflect or bow.

C) Also I notice that many times they do not make the sign of the cross with Holy Water when entering the Church.

D) They do not ever attend adoration, my brother really opposes this as he thinks the Church should not spend money on gold for the Monstrance, but should rather use the money for poor people instead.

E) They receive communion every Sunday without ever confessing before hand.

F) Often times my Mother will skip mass to go to Cost-co for the weeks super special deals. She only does this when I am not down for a weekend to visit.

G) My sister has been criticizing me for not being completely accepting of other faiths and cultures; we have had discussions about several instances of Hindu ceremonies being performed in Catholic Churches. My stance was this is a sever crime against God and His Church. She only came back with that I need to be more open to other peoples cultures and that I am prejudice.

I love my family very much, but it hurts to see them taking for granted the Gift of faith that we have been given. Perhaps they have become very secularized since I moved out.

What can I do to bring them back into the fold, the true practice of Catholicism? I just feel like I don’t know what to say to them to try to make them understand what they are doing wrong, without completely offending them. I can tell they also love God and the Church, but their practice seems to be so off with what the true teachings of the Church are.

Please Help!

[Paphnutius]

Well a few things first:

1) Adoration is a [i]private devotion[/i] and others should not be looked poorly upon because they do not attend it. It can and does most certainly aid one in becoming a more devout and holy person, but it is not mandatory, at least not to my knowledge.
2) We are required to go to Confession at least once a year, or if you are in a state of mortal sin. Otherwise, receiving Communion absolves venial sins (if I have my catechesis straight). So to say that one must go every time before Communion is almost judging them. It is encouraged and promoted for regular attendance (most people I know go every other week), but not mandated. The most that you can do here is encourage frequent attendance and to make a good examination of conscience. You should not expect them to go every time. I do not think that is what you meant, but one should be careful.

As for what you can do....Pray [i]for [/i]them and [i]with [/i]them. Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance and inspiration on this matter. Also, example is one of the best ways to lead others to holiness. As St. Franciss said: "Always preach the Gospel, when necessary use words."

This is my personal approach here, ask them point blank. Do not be accusatory (is that a word?), but in a truly loving and charitable manner. Explain to them why such shows of reverence are proper and such. *The kneeling/bowing is actually required I think, but I would have to look at the GIRM. Be encouraging and paitent. Ask your pastor for help, or if you have any questions about the practices I would be more than happy to help.

[Paphnutius]

Oh yeah a thought just occured to me. If your brother thinks that it is wrong to spend money on Christ substantially present in the Eucharist via a golden monstrance, point him to the annointing at Bethany.

[Church Punk]

Hey thanks for the help... I was thinking more deeply about this last night and thought that maybe they just don't know any better. I mean, what if my Mom learned everything from her parents and did realize it was wrong. I know until high school, I would simply mimic what I have seen in the Church.

It wasnt until high school where I realized what it was all about and how important every gesture is during mass, confession and adoration.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Church Punk' date='Nov 25 2005, 01:52 PM']A) They do not go to confession very often or ever anymore. My sister has gone a handful of times in the past 2 or 3 years I can not remember the last time my Mother has gone, in fact I can not remember her going ever![/quote]
well, we are only obligated to go once a year (cf. [url="http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P3G.HTM#33"][b]Can. 989[/b][/url]), but regular confession is surely recommended. i think you're right when you imply that neglect of this sacrament shows the priority it plays in their lives.


[quote]My brother now rejects most of the church’s teachings on the mass, adoration and confession.

B) Upon entering a church or crossing the alter, they do no genuflect or bow.[/quote]
from the GIRM [emphasis mine]:[list][b]274. [/b]A genuflection, made by bending the right knee to the ground, signifies adoration, and therefore it is reserved for the Most Blessed Sacrament, as well as for the Holy Cross from the solemn adoration during the liturgical celebration on Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil.

During Mass, three genuflections are made by the priest celebrant: namely, after the showing of the host, after the showing of the chalice, and before Communion. Certain specific features to be observed in a concelebrated Mass are noted in their proper place (cf. above, nos. 210-251).

If, however, the tabernacle with the Most Blessed Sacrament is present in the sanctuary, the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers genuflect when they approach the altar and when they depart from it, but not during the celebration of Mass itself.

[i]Otherwise all who pass before the Most Blessed Sacrament genuflect, unless they are moving in procession.[/i]

Ministers carrying the processional cross or candles bow their heads instead of genuflecting.

[/list]

[quote]C) Also I notice that many times they do not make the sign of the cross with Holy Water when entering the Church.[/quote]
i could be wrong about this, but i don't think we are anywhere required to make the sign of the cross w/ holy water when entering the Church. it is, however, a most holy tradition that should be followed simply b/c of its symbolic value and b/c of the actual blessing the participant receives.


[quote]D) They do not ever attend adoration, my brother really opposes this as he thinks the Church should not spend money on gold for the Monstrance, but should rather use the money for poor people instead.[/quote]
as nutty said, eucharistic adoration is a private devotion and no one is required to participate in it. however, the faithful should always hold high reverence for the Eucharist (cf. [url="http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P35.HTM#3M"][b]Can. 898[/b][/url]), and i think that this omission [i]when added to the other omissions of your family[/i], shows the general regard that they have for the Eucharist and the mass.


[quote]E) They receive communion every Sunday without ever confessing before hand.[/quote]
well, confession before reception of communion is only required when the participant is in a state of mortal sin (cf. [url="http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P38.HTM#6S"][b]Can. 916[/b][/url]). however, since they do not frequent the sacrament of confession, if ever, they are definitely in danger of receiving communion unworthily.


[quote]F) Often times my Mother will skip mass to go to Cost-co for the weeks super special deals. She only does this when I am not down for a weekend to visit.[/quote]
it is a grave sin to miss mass w/o just reason (cf. Can. [url="http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P4L.HTM"][b]1246-1248[/b][/url]; CCC, para. [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2181.htm"][b]2181[/b][/url]). catching the "super special deals" isn't one of them.


[quote]G) My sister has been criticizing me for not being completely accepting of other faiths and cultures; we have had discussions about several instances of Hindu ceremonies being performed in Catholic Churches. My stance was this is a sever crime against God and His Church. She only came back with that I need to be more open to other peoples cultures and that I am prejudice.[/quote]
your sister shows an implicit denial in the reality of absolute truth. some things are just true, and other things just simply aren't. there is nothing prejudicial in affirming this. you don't have anything against Hindu people. you don't hate them or disagree w/ their beliefs for the very fact that they are Hindu. instead, you love them, but you disagree w/ their beliefs b/c they [i]contradict[/i] the Word of God and His Church. ask you sister, "do you really expect me, as a christian, to believe something that is not christian? what if i asked you to believe what Satanists believe? would [i]you[/i] be prejudice if you did not oblige?"


[quote]I love my family very much, but it hurts to see them taking for granted the Gift of faith that we have been given. Perhaps they have become very secularized since I moved out.

What can I do to bring them back into the fold, the true practice of Catholicism? I just feel like I don’t know what to say to them to try to make them understand what they are doing wrong, without completely offending them. I can tell they also love God and the Church, but their practice seems to be so off with what the true teachings of the Church are.

Please Help![right][snapback]800160[/snapback][/right][/quote]
the best way to lead them in the right direction is through prayer and example. pray for them daily, and before the Blessed Sacrament whenever you can. pray that the Lord will soften their hearts and rekindle in them a love for His Church. also, pray that the Lord will make you his instrument for bringing them closer to Himself and that he will give you strength to always be His worthy vessel.

after that, just live your Catholic life the best you can. go to mass every sunday, even when no one goes w/ you. don't necessarily trumpet your faith. but, at the same time, don't be afraid to let them see you doing very Catholic things, like making the sign of the cross whenever you pass by a church, and saying grace before meals, and going to Confession and Adoration.

also, don't forget to always invite them to participate in these things as well. you don't want it to look like this is just your thing, and so they can't participate. before you go to mass, or confession, or adoration ask them if they would like to come too. no matter how many times they say no, always ask them before you go. before you say grace before meals or prayers at bedtime, ask if they will pray with you. if you ever plan on going to a church function, or a retreat, or bible study, or any other edifying experience, invite them to these things too. eventually, and hopefully, the seed will be planted.

finally, make sure you know why all of these activities, and gestures, and acts of devotion and adoration are important. be able to defend their importance and their validity. that's why i took the time to quote church documents in this response, so that you will know where it is that the Church makes authoritative statements on these things. increase your knowledge as best you can so that you will be able to present Church teaching as effective as possible whenever the time calls for it. Heed the words of Peter:[list][b]1 Pet 3:15b [/b]Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence
[/list]make sure you are polite when you explain things to them, and especially when you remind them that what they are doing is harmful to their spiritual life. you do have a right do tell them such things, but since they are your family members, they also deserve your respect. present yourself as someone who cares, not as someone who is trying to tell them what to do.

i hope that helps. if you have any more questions about this, just let us know.

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[Paphnutius]

I did not know that you were a canon lawyer phat.

Thanks for giving a much more thorough explination and citing sources.

[Church Punk]

Thank you Phat,

That is excellent help! I will let you know how things are going.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Nov 26 2005, 09:03 AM']I did not know that you were a canon lawyer phat. 
[right][snapback]800719[/snapback][/right][/quote]
haha, i wish!!! :


[quote name='Church Punk' date='Nov 26 2005, 10:33 AM']Thank you Phat,

That is excellent help! I will let you know how things are going.
[right][snapback]800730[/snapback][/right][/quote]
np glad i could help.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Nov 26 2005, 05:09 PM']haha, i wish!!! :
[/quote]
Really...I can see it now. Phatcatholic and his less educated and less tacful sidekick Paphnutius.... :

[argent_paladin]

The type of multiculturalism that your sister advocates would result in the destruction of all culture (except hers). Therefore, it is a very thinly disguised form of cultural imperialism. She believes that her point of view (multiculturalism) is the only correct way to think and she persecutes those (like you) who disagree with her.
If all were like your sister, then everyone would have equal respect for all cultures, but not be a member of any (like your sister is not a member of the traditional Catholic culture). Thus you would end up with lots of cultural dabblers and mixing of cultures, but you would end up with a blah culture, a mix of every culture, but the loss of pure Hinduism, pure Catholicism, etc. Ironically, he goal of diversity would be destroyed, replaced by an incoherent mix of random cultures.

Of course, you can also say that she is so intolerant of other beliefs, and watch her try to defend herself. Say that you believe in relgious freedom, where Hindus can be Hindus and Catholics can be Catholics.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Nov 26 2005, 05:19 PM']Really...I can see it now. Phatcatholic and his less educated and less tacful sidekick Paphnutius....  :[right][snapback]800914[/snapback][/right][/quote]
dude, we'd take over the world.....


[quote name='argent_paladin' date='Nov 26 2005, 07:05 PM']The type of multiculturalism that your sister advocates would result in the destruction of all culture (except hers). Therefore, it is a very thinly disguised form of cultural imperialism. She believes that her point of view (multiculturalism) is the only correct way to think and she persecutes those (like you) who disagree with her. 
If all were like your sister, then everyone would have equal respect for all cultures, but not be a member of any (like your sister is not a member of the traditional Catholic culture). Thus you would end up with lots of cultural dabblers and mixing of cultures, but you would end up with a blah culture, a mix of every culture, but the loss of pure Hinduism, pure Catholicism, etc. Ironically, he goal of diversity would be destroyed, replaced by an incoherent mix of random cultures.

Of course, you can also say that she is so intolerant of other beliefs, and watch her try to defend herself. Say that you believe in relgious freedom, where Hindus can be Hindus and Catholics can be Catholics.[right][snapback]801042[/snapback][/right][/quote]
good call, argent. its amazing how "tolerant" people are, until you disagree with them

[Church Punk]

[quote]Say that you believe in relgious freedom, where Hindus can be Hindus and Catholics can be Catholics.[/quote]

The antinom of this seems to be one of the primary devices used by so many "multiculturalist" i speak with.

It always seems ok to be anything accept Christian and definately not Catholic! The same is also true when speaking with the pro gay rights people. They believe in freedom of choice and speech until you are against them.

BTW...

I had a chance to speak to my mother about some of the things and have actually corrected her so far. I got the whole story of why she has been doing such things ie not genufelct and such.

As it turns out, she was raised in a stong Catholic house hold, her father was Irish and mother was French Canadian. She explained that for all her life they used to do everything traditionally until the 1960's when she was a young teenager.

The preist apparently re-taught the congragation at her church that Genufelcting, making the sign of the cross when entering and such as stated above, was no longer nessesary with Vatican II, thus he led many astray.

Until I told her and quoted some of the canon law provided by Phat, she had been under the impression that it was re-written and thus she was no longer required to partake in these things during mass for about 35 years!!!!!!

I was dumb-founded when she told me this! I couldnt believe that the priest did this and it was not just one, she said it was several preist that when though their parish, thus it re-inforced in her the above.

Now just to get them to come to confession more often! That will be a lot harder!

[Paphnutius]

I am glad the she was willing to listen and phat was able to help with citations. This just goes to show you how important catechesis is, even to priests.

[jasJis]

Punk. I'd suggest looking to things written by Peter Kreeft about practical ways to discuss issues. As you learned w/ your mom, misinformation abounds even within those deep in the Catholic 'culture'. For example, 'A Handbook of Christian Apologetics' is fantastic to understand principles, arguments, and explainations from a Christian aspect that leads to Catholicism. You'd have to read Kreeft to understand his open style that works well for all Christian. Kreeft co-authored the book with somebody named Taggert (I think).

The second thing to keep in mind is we 'illuminate', not guide when it comes to changing peoples minds.

[phatcatholic]

good points, Jas

glad to see you posting here